[franklyshankly]

I know there's a chain of priority for where you should spend the most money (headphones>amp/dac>cables ... etc), but I forgot how it applies to DACs and amps.
 
Basically, I just bought a used KICAS amp off this site, and it's amazing. I'm running ipod > Pure i20 > kicas amp > phones (was using IEMs but I just bought some HD650s, we'll see how they sound).
 
I'm now looking for a nice DAC, just to complete the set up, and I've somehow allowed myself to spend ~ $400 on a DAC, but I only spent $220 on my amp (granted, it sold new for $400) ...
 
Should I go for the decent DAC, then upgrade the amp in a year or so? Or, should I resell the KICAS and put all that money ($220 + $400 = $620) towards a nicer amp and then upgrade DAC in a year?
 
I guess what I'm asking is, what will sound better: $650 amp with no DAC, or a KICAS amp and a $400 DAC?
 
Thanks!

 

[Equus]

In my experience, it totally depends on the DAC and amp and how they all feed into the chain.  Some amps will really benefit from a good source, and some DACs really aren't going to help a lot without a good amp with good synergy.  Unfortunately, I have no experience with your amp, so couldn't tell you which direction would be better.  What headphones are you using mostly?  That can make a difference too.

 

[franklyshankly]

Yeah, I guess I have to wait to find the right headphones. I ordered the hd650s, and I *think* I'll like them, but dont know til I try em. I guess I'll just wait awhile, get used to the system I have, but I know I'm going to want to upgrade soon and the whole DAC/amp world makes my head spin. So many choices, so much hyperbole ... I thought headphones were hard to sift through!
 
So I should be looking at DACs and amps that go well together based on my preferences?
 
Would it be a bad idea to buy a DAC without knowing what amp I want to go with it?
 
This is crazy confusing.

 

[franklyshankly]

Also, I think I might really want to try orthodynamic headphones in the future, is there a DAC/amp combo (not integrated, just paired together) that could sound good and properly drive orthos as well as dynamics like the HD650?
 
I'm trying to think ahead and avoid the constant upgrading while staying within a modest budget ... I'd rather save for a year for the right amp/dac than buy something right now without knowing all my options.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Don't think in terms of dollars and ratios. Not every $500 or $1,000 component is created equal and there is zero guarantee of performance at any price. Some very expensive stuff sounds awful while some affordable gear is about the best there is.

If you have a HD-650 coming, focus on finding a good amp for it. It's sensitive to what it's plugged into. For your budget, I'd look at the Dynalo/Gilmore Lite or the M^3. Both handle the HD-650 nicely.

 

[franklyshankly]

Well, I do have the KICAS which, from what I've read on here, is at least decent with the hd650s, so I probably won't upgrade my amp until I know what I'm looking for.
 
When you say some expensive stuff sounds awful, you're talking about synergy (or lack of it)?

 

[sk3383]

Channel Islands Audio VDA2
http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-accessories/acoustics-eq-room-tuning/channel-islands-audio-vda-2-dac-review.html
http://www.ciaudio.com/pdfs/reviews/TA_017.pdf
 
Musical Fidelity V-DAC
http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/V-Series/V-DAC/V-DAC-review.pdf
http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/V-Series/V-DAC/V-DAC-review2.pdf
 
 
Those are two units that wont break the bank. There are plenty of reviews on the web and on this site.
 
I have heard the CI Audio VDA2 and it sounds much more expensive than the price would indicate.

 

[sk3383]

Synergy plays a huge part in audio. Thats why reviews and comments are so hard to accept, because everyones system is different, not to mention everyones hears differentially, nobodys interpretation of the perfect sound is the same.

 
Quote:

Well, I do have the KICAS which, from what I've read on here, is at least decent with the hd650s, so I probably won't upgrade my amp until I know what I'm looking for.
 
When you say some expensive stuff sounds awful, you're talking about synergy (or lack of it)?

 

 

[franklyshankly]

 
Quote:

I guess what I'm asking is, what will sound better: $650 amp with no DAC, or a KICAS amp and a $400 DAC?

This is what I'm after, not necessarily a brand recommendation. I've been looking at tons of different DACs, but my question is more concerned with how wise it is to have a good DAC paired with a so-so amp, versus having a really good amp with no DAC. Am I wasting my money on an Audio GD NFB3 (or some comparable DAC) if I only have a KICAS amp? Would it make more sense to put that money into a better amp? Or would it make even more sense to put all the money I've spent into better headphones (LCD2s)?
 
I'm wondering about how these different options will affect sound quality, not just opinions on how I should spend my money, just to be clear.

 

[sk3383]

Well, IMO the source and amplifier are equally important. I believe you should spend an even amount on both devices. If I had to choose one, I would start with the source.
 
Spend on Amp:
-----------------------
If the source transport, whether it be CD, or USB to SPDIF sounds poor, then your amazing amplifier will be sending a poor signal to your headphones or speakers. Resulting in poor sound quality
 
Spend on Source:
--------------------------
If the source transport sounds good, but your amplifier is just "so so" .... I still think that overall the sound quality will be slightly better.
 
YMMV

 

[sk3383]

My apologies, I should have read more carefully.
 
Quote:

 
This is what I'm after, not necessarily a brand recommendation.

 

[Equus]

Quote:

 
This is what I'm after, not necessarily a brand recommendation. I've been looking at tons of different DACs, but my question is more concerned with how wise it is to have a good DAC paired with a so-so amp, versus having a really good amp with no DAC. Am I wasting my money on an Audio GD NFB3 (or some comparable DAC) if I only have a KICAS amp? Would it make more sense to put that money into a better amp? Or would it make even more sense to put all the money I've spent into better headphones (LCD2s)?
 
I'm wondering about how these different options will affect sound quality, not just opinions on how I should spend my money, just to be clear.

IMO, if you buy something that's a compromise, you'll just get buyer's remorse and want to upgrade down the line.  In that case, you might as well get the better amp for now and upgrade your DAC later down the line when budget permits.  In my experience, synergy is plays a big part in building a rig, so it may behoove you to spend your budget on a good amp for your 650's, figure out how they sound to you, then explore options on a DAC that complements the sound later down the road.  While the sound in the interim won't be ideal, you'll have a point of reference when shopping for your DAC in the future and hopefully will be able to avoid some of the upgraditis that plagues us all.
 

 

[Graphicism]

If you already have the KICAS amp then spend the money on a good DAC. I see so many reviewers commenting on the sound of their headphones but ultimately all you're doing is reviewing how well the headphones allow you to hear the source. This word 'synergy' that is thrown around a lot is a bit of a moot point, if your amp can power your headphone sufficiently look for colorization in headphones, not with the amp or source.

 

[sridhar3]

Quote:

If you already have the KICAS amp then spend the money on a good DAC.

x2.  Audio-gd is a good place to start.  Great bang for the buck.

 

[rymd]

 
 
Quote:

how wise it is to have a good DAC paired with a so-so amp, versus having a really good amp with no DAC.

 
If you're using a portable player as your source, it would be much better to have a good DAC with a so-so amp rather than a good amp with the portable player as a source. And I wouldn't exactly consider your KICAS amp so-so...