[beeman458]

Nothing wrong with audio bliss.  After what I wrote above, I wonder if my 650's will ever take me back?
 

 

 

[Zida]

If not I'll take 'em.

 

[beeman458]

If they won't take me back, I'll be happy to give em a bag lunch, twenty bucks and a map.
 

 
It was just a mid-life thing.  I really didn't care about their slim, fast sounds.  It's you and only you my ears have a sound preference for.  If you take me back, I'll get you your very own balanced amp.  You know you've always wanted a balanced amp.
 

 

[KneelJung]

 
Quote:

And no, I've not been drinking, am I on drugs, fallen in love or any other mood altering possibilities that might cause me to sound so far out there when writing my above.  And then again, maybe it's just the synergy between the combination of the three: two year old Sansa Clip, FiiO E-7 and a lucky set of IE8's and nobody, and no other combination will be able to recreate this listening experience; "Do You Believe in Magic?"  And then again, it could simply be the addition of the amp.
 

Question: since the Clip doesnt have a dedicated line out arent you essentially just amping the signal of the headphone out of the clip? What does the amp do other than more volume and IMO the Clip gets plenty loud enough on it's own so I guess I dont really see the point.

 

 

[Albedo]

How's the amp on the Clip regulated?
 
By bits or by voltage, on my smartphone I'm guessing bits as I see it.. there's no way in the design that the amp are getting ten different voltages. Setting the phone at volume 50% are ridiculous as the music becomes lifeless and the bass gets bloated, but why no mentioning of this on this board?
 
Well, I remember several Squeezebox discussion some years ago, where the volume on that device was the DAC and cutting out bits and reducing both volume and resolution. I suspect that any 10 step or any stepping volume control (no sweetspot.. a giveaway) is the culprit, in my future quest for a portable I will certainly pay attention to how the volume is controlled. I heartly recommend a good sized amp as the dynamic (life) are something quite different, I've always bought my amps over-sized for that reason.
 
I tend to look at only one spec.. mW, as noisefloor, THD etc. are good and not that important, so I go with Beeman458 and ask if you have paired your iPod with an amp?

 

[Deep Funk]

FLAC, FLAC, FLAC... If I ever want to make the effort my Clip + gets extra memory and all the music will be FLAC. Regarding headphones, Sennheiser PX 200 II... (No amplifiers required)

 

[beeman458]

KneelJung wrote:
 
Question: since the Clip doesnt have a dedicated line out arent you essentially just amping the signal of the headphone out of the clip? What does the amp do other than more volume and IMO the Clip gets plenty loud enough on it's own so I guess I dont really see the point.
 
Working with you on your question.  When I first started out on this sojourn, maybe a day or two ago, I had a similar question.  Through much effort on the part of those who frequent the forum, many tried their level headed best to help me see the light.  They weren't able to help me see the light but now that I'm older and wiser, I'll try to do the same for you, as yes, I have seen the light and it's a colorful one.  But remember, in the end, you're the final arbiter and it's your choice whether to respond to what I'm sharing or not.
 
The easiest analogy is a car motor's cost and the engines efficiency in pumping air.  Do you want an old beater to replace a blown engine, or do you want a screamer to do some drifting in?  After all, in the final, they're all just a motor in an engine bay.  The amp is the same.  The amp doesn't "just" make things louder.  Better amps keep frequencies separated while making things louder.  With a cheap azzzz amp, you have loud noise.  With a quality amp, you have loud music.
 
Most cheap amps or amps supplied in a DAP, will easily do the mids but you'll have muddied or muffled bass notes and you'll have congested or compressed (clipping) highs as the amp won't have enough torque to get you there, let alone enough horsepower to keep you there.  Think dynamic range.  Now, think of an engine at max RPM with too little carburetion: choke, choke, choke, choke at fifty-five hundred RPM's.  You can have the finest engine design in the world but too small of a carburetor and well, you get the picture.  It's the same with an amp.  You won't have the dynamic range, even at low listening levels, so your bass notes will load up and become muffled and your highs will become compressed, or clip and make your poor ears bleed, in a bad way.
 
Personally, I'm looking at a couple of suggested all-in-one DAP's so I won't have to add an additional amp as I too want to keep it simple.  So please, don't think that I'm trying to sell amps as what I'm trying to encourage is affordable sound quality and a quality amp, whether in the form of a quality DAP or a separate amp, will help you obtain that goal.  And like the best engine in the world and a lousy carburetor, if the amp's not there, then the best earphones in the world are going come out sounding second best or worse.  Mid-range pricing for all-in-one DAP's that I'm currently considering:
 
Cowon J3 or a Nationite S:Flo2.
 
Now for the final arbiter part.  Some people are happy with simplicity and bloated bass notes accompanied by compressed or clipping high notes.  It's free choice and free will when one decides to make the choice regarding keeping a few bucks in their pocket or keep their ears from bleeding all the time.  Remember, on this issue, you're the final arbiter of what I wrote in response to the question: quality sound, mediocre sound and how long do you want your ears to bleed for.
 

 
Hope I did a decent job in answering your question.
 

 

[KneelJung]

beeman, thank you for taking the time to post that response. I suppose I get that the extra oomph that an amp provides helps a headphone in fully performing the way it was designed to perform. I just recently plugged my Porta Pro's into my new Sparrow for my home rig and they've never galloped like that plugged into my Clip. And I suppose people use their portable rig as their primary rig so having some gear to make their headphones be all that they can be is understandable. From my perspective though I plug my Porta Pro's into my Clip, then clip my Clip to my shorts and go to the gym. Occasionally I plug my SR60's into it and sit out on the porch and read. To me that's all I need when going portable. Although maybe a fuze with a LO and a Pico Slim to use with the HF2's I have coming might be worthwhile.
 
Although as a portable rig, the Clip and the Porta Pro's are a more than adequate set up, it's not hifi but it does the job.

 

[beeman458]

KneelJung wrote:
 
From my perspective though I plug my Porta Pro's into my Clip, then clip my Clip to my shorts and go to the gym.
 
When you're sweating and doing aerobics, sound quality is the least of your worries.  Personally, I don't listen with IEM's when lifting, too much sweat.
 
Occasionally I plug my SR60's into it and sit out on the porch and read.
 
Now, sound quality matters in a conundrum way.  If they sound too good, then the sound quality distracts from the reading because they're too compelling to listen to and if they sound like kr@p they're too distracting to listen to; these sound like $h!t.  Needless to say, I don't try to read and listen at the same time but I won't do miles without sound because of the tedium.  But then again, I have some cheap azzzzz sports related SONY IEM's (SONY MDR-AS20J) for running purposes.  I also have a set of sports earphones, Sennheiser PMX 80's that are water (sweat) resistant for all other sweat inducing conditions.  Yes, both are compromises but also we're writing about exercising, not listening to quality sound.
 
To me that's all I need when going portable. Although maybe a fuze with a LO and a Pico Slim to use with the HF2's I have coming might be worthwhile.
 
Once you're accustom to quality sound, it's no longer worthwhile going with downgrades as a compromising option.  What you'll find, if you haven't already is, having several options will become seen not as a luxury but as a necessity.
 
Although as a portable rig, the Clip and the Porta Pro's are a more than adequate set up, it's not hifi but it does the job.
 
Only if you're good with mediocre sound quality when trying to enjoy your extensive, expensive music library.
 

 

[danielghofrani]

wow! I have learned alot from this.
what do you guys think about Sony NWZE354, my sister has one of those and she wants to diss it for an ipod touch. does it have as good of a sound quality as Clip+?

 

[Deep Funk]

Quote:

wow! I have learned alot from this.
what do you guys think about Sony NWZE354, my sister has one of those and she wants to diss it for an ipod touch. does it have as good of a sound quality as Clip+?

If you can have it for next to nothing, take the offer. If the software is not an issue you can use it for the time being. Either way it will give you some insight and a reference for a better DAP. I am not well known with the Sony - do know that! - but it gives you the chance to play with bit files, equalizer settings, the software and sound. With a simple Fiio E5 you could play with it and various headphones.
 
Just a suggestion...  
 

 

[Bokyung]

Quote:

wow! I have learned alot from this.
what do you guys think about Sony NWZE354, my sister has one of those and she wants to diss it for an ipod touch. does it have as good of a sound quality as Clip+?

 
All of Sony dap hisses, how much? That's subjective. Some may find it "little" and others might find it "zomfg get this away from my ears"
 
it'. In terms of pure SQ, its little warmer than clip+, but more neutral than J3/S9. Sony has decent EQ, this is where it shines. I've seen people saying Sony's EQ is on par with Cowon, but I'd say it's right below. And with E354, you aren't shackled down with Apple eco, it has drag-and-drop. If you have iTunes, you can open it, select the songs you like, then drag-and-drop into your folder. Couldn't be simpler.
 
Don't like hiss? Don't want bass roll off? Sony may not be the dap for you.

 

[WalkmanMan]

All I can say is Sony NWZE436F is better than iPod nano 4th Generation and iPod Touch 2nd Generation in terms of SQ. I've heard a few other players SQ such as Philips GoGear (Good) , Diamond Audio (Bad), Coby (Bad), Sansa Sandisk (O.K) and Curtis (Bad).

 

[beeman458]

Sansa Sandisk (O.K)
 
And when attached to a third party amp, much, much better.
 

 

 

 

[metllicamilitia]

Well, I didn't read the entire thread, but I'll vouch for the Clip+ so long as it's Rockboxed.