[boodi]

get v50 and a bumper or similar case then

 

[Gulatikirat0]

I'm using Redmi K20 Pro and it's a good option for what it costs but not at all exceptional. My Redmi Note 4 sounds equally good with Ainur Narsil. Plus Miui is a pain and most audio mods dont work on this device so it's depends on what you want out of this smartphone - simple audio performance or an overall package.

HI! hope you are doing well!

Can you confirm that K20 pro works fine with USB AMPs like dragonfly, iffi HIP DAC ?
I know they don't output analog audio over USB c coz it has AUX port.... I want to buy one of the AMPs mentioned above and wanted to be sure before I make the call!

Thank you

 

[Barusu Lamperouge]

HI! hope you are doing well!

Can you confirm that K20 pro works fine with USB AMPs like dragonfly, iffi HIP DAC ?
I know they don't output analog audio over USB c coz it has AUX port.... I want to buy one of the AMPs mentioned above and wanted to be sure before I make the call!

Thank you

Hey, thanks for writing in. The USB audio is wonky and doesn't sound right. I'd suggest you get a cheap connector to bypass if you intend to get a USB DAC. Hope that helps.

 

[Gulatikirat0]

Hey, thanks for writing in. The USB audio is wonky and doesn't sound right. I'd suggest you get a cheap connector to bypass if you intend to get a USB DAC. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the reply!

What type of connector are you talking about?
Can you give an example of how the setup would look like?


Additionally, Have you tried USB C DAC/AMPS with K20 pro? Would you recommend buying a stand-alone amp/DAP due to K20 not being good enough?

 

[Barusu Lamperouge]

Thanks for the reply!

What type of connector are you talking about?
Can you give an example of how the setup would look like?


Additionally, Have you tried USB C DAC/AMPS with K20 pro? Would you recommend buying a stand-alone amp/DAP due to K20 not being good enough?

It was a generic USB C to USB- C plug connecting the USB amp and the phone. It was a pain to setup and sound didn't improve at all.

I don't use USB-C amps with K20 Pro anymore. I am using Fiio BTR5 and Walnut F2 as my primary amps. As a standalone DAC, K20 Pro is more than enough better to get a good amp with lineout or a comprehensive solution like Radsone ES100/Fiio BTR5/Qudelix 5k, all three of them can be used as USB DACs as well if you intend to. If you are based in India, then I suggest Fiio due to better after sales support, if in EU or US then Qudelix 5K is also a great option.

 

[yfei]

Recent thoughts:

1. I have tried Qudelix 5k and NextDrive Spectra X, and find out Qudelix 5k is fast, resolving, clean, however it is not full sounding. It uses ES9218P's internal amp, no dedicated amp circuit, this might be the reason. Spectra X is much much better, it is full sounding like a real desktop DAC with headphone amp setup.
So, I guess I will never buy any DAC which uses ESS chip as both DAC and Amp, this doesn't work.
Is there any bluetooth portable DAC that uses ESS chip and dedicated amp?

2. Spectra X - after more listening, I agree with headphonics reviews' comments about the issue with ESS 9018 chip's bass tonality. (https://headfonics.com/nextdrive-spectra-x-review/) the bass quantity and weight is there, however it lacks impact and density. Otherwise Spectra X will be the perfect, and king.
Not spectra x's fault, it could be inherit issue of 9018 chip. Looking forward to new Spectra model using newer ESS chip.

3. Filters
ESS chips has 8 preset filters. http://www.esstech.com/index.php/en...ophile-dacs/pre-tuned-reconstruction-filters/
Qudelix 5k exposed seting of all 8 filter for me to play with, which is very nice. LG phones only expose 3 filters.
After playing with all of them, I feel the best is still the old school 'Brick-wall filter'. All other 7 new filter designs make the music sound weird one way or another. They tries to tweak, try to hide things, but result is making the music unnatural. I don't know where exactly they mess up, maybe the phase coherency between different frequency bands.
'Brick-wall filter' is honest, straight forward, garbage in, garbage out.

• V30 and G6 (Asian market G6 only) – ESS Sabre ES9218P Quad DAC (tuned by B&O Play)
• V40 and G7 – ESS Sabre ES9218P Quad DAC (tuned by Meridian)
• V50 and G8 (and G8x) – ESS Sabre ES9218P Quad DAC (tuned by Meridian)
• V60 – ESS Sabre ES9219 Quad DAC (most likely tuned by LG)

Radsone ES100/Fiio BTR5/Qudelix 5k

 

[Gulatikirat0]

It was a generic USB C to USB- C plug connecting the USB amp and the phone. It was a pain to setup and sound didn't improve at all.

I don't use USB-C amps with K20 Pro anymore. I am using Fiio BTR5 and Walnut F2 as my primary amps. As a standalone DAC, K20 Pro is more than enough better to get a good amp with lineout or a comprehensive solution like Radsone ES100/Fiio BTR5/Qudelix 5k, all three of them can be used as USB DACs as well if you intend to. If you are based in India, then I suggest Fiio due to better after sales support, if in EU or US then Qudelix 5K is also a great option.

SO USB amps like IFFI HIP DAC or connecting qudelix/btr5 via USB to K20 pro wont sound good?

 

[Barusu Lamperouge]

SO USB amps like IFFI HIP DAC or connecting qudelix/btr5 via USB to K20 pro wont sound good?

Yes because the source audio is an inferior quality. I mean when these DACs process the sound they WILL sound good. But they will sound better via 3.5mm output because sadly that's how the K20p is programmed to function. You can get any DAC/Amp and that will improve improve the sound. But 3.5>USB C at least for K20p.

 

[boodi]

Recent thoughts:

1. I have tried Qudelix 5k and NextDrive Spectra X, and find out Qudelix 5k is fast, resolving, clean, however it is not full sounding. It uses ES9218P's internal amp, no dedicated amp circuit, this might be the reason. Spectra X is much much better, it is full sounding like a real desktop DAC with headphone amp setup.
So, I guess I will never buy any DAC which uses ESS chip as both DAC and Amp, this doesn't work.
Is there any bluetooth portable DAC that uses ESS chip and dedicated amp?

you mean portable DAC/amp or more specifically a dongle ?

I'm using Fiio Q5s-TC lately ( I have the Qudelix 5k too along with v30 and v40 ) ; it is a portable DAC/amp and bluetooth multiformat capable ; not a dongle though, I also never listened to the Spectra X ; but have/had some other dongles.

Consider it uses AK4933 as DAC opposed to ESS9218 DAC chip

And it is paired with dual THX-AAA78 amp modules.

Specs are quite good .

The difference in sound is there not very subtle ( imo)
Sound gets overall nearer to the realm of hi-end with the Q5s-TC then on all the other portables I have ( quite a number ); I've been minding to review it for a while but it is a quality gear / quite high quality for the sound processed, so it's taking a bit more then expected to listen to it with specific audio material ( bad recordings/demanding recordings etc , a list of music "hurdles" ) ;
just i.e. now I am playing and listening Cynic "Focus" , a prog fusion jazz metal recording , very well known and infamous for being an amazing creation and effort of writing in his genre and for having been played by quite skilled musicians , but aslo an out of tune mix with evident bass deficiency along all album ; this asks for more then a sacrifice to fully appreciate the work

I have to say that the Fiio Q5s-TC delivers and narrow the gap , where the Qudelix 5k fails ( delivering a "full sound" , very weighted and well defined and separated in all his parts , and fullbodied in possibly all his parts too ) ; I will write up better in a full review my findings but i.e. in this case the Q5s-TC passes the test unexpectedly well , where the 5K quite struggle with a sound that is too much leaner / lighter , the v40 have a similarly ligher body for sound with a smaller level of refinement then the 5k - not always audible though when similarly equalized to be sincere .

But, the Q5s-TC carries the last generation or so of AK chips , not the ESS ones .
I might say they are not night and day in what they offer, differences are there , but not far ( whereas i.e. the Chord Mojo dac/amp is quite night and day when compared for sound signature, to both of them )

I've been quite a fan of the Sabre chips and implementations before , now I seem to quite prefer the AK sound signature to the ESS , they both have a very fast sound and they both have hints of glarings on the mid-upper range , the ESS seems fast as the AK but a tad more glaring and "shrilling" on the highs ; the AK more analoguish and smooth , not slower at all , but an inch more organic and an inch less digital sounding ; can't say for sure about which one of the two is the best details-extractor as I do not have a portable equipped with the ESS chip and separate amp section , for fair comparison ; but in a direct comparison with the Qudelix 5k , the Fiio Q5s-TC shows to be ahead for detail offering and presentation, among things.

They have a much different size and weight though ,
one is a dongle , the other is the size of a little sized smartphone, and thicker then it.

 

[yfei]

I found out the sibilant issue is due to sometimes phone detected my IEM as external audio device. If i replug, and use HiFi Status(LG) app to make sue the jack is in 'normal audio device' mode, then the sound is perfect, no sibilant issue.

I found both V40 and G7 are sibilant and also harsh and fatiguing between 2 kHz and 4-5 kHz range especially in cymbal using Senn 660s while using the 660s with E10k or laptop jack upper mid is not harsh. So I EQ down a few db on LG to get the harshness away. I am also curious if all V40/V50 are tuned by meridian because my old G7 and new V40 sound pretty much the same.

 

[yfei]

Brief comparison of devices I tried lately: LG V60, LG V50, Spectra X (portable usb dac), Qudelix 5k (portable bluetooth+usb dac), Meizu USB DAC Pro (portable usb dac), and my old devices: LG V30, Meizu Pro5 (HiFi Phone)
Compare in terms of: Bass quality, Fullness, Balance, Resolution and details



LG V60 (US hw model, US Cellular firmware)
Bass quality 10
- The best I have heard, very realistic. All types of drums sounds realistic and energetic. And able to move quite amount of air, never had this kind of experience with my all BA IEM (64 Audio U12).
Fullness and tone 10
- Full sounding from mids to lows, and tone is natural and realistic everywhere.
Balance 10
- From highs to lows are quite well balanced, satisfying and fits all music genres.
Resolution and details 9
- Maybe the highs could be more airy
Overall: a huge league above other LG hifi phones. And also better than other hifi phones, portable dacs.
Looks like the design of ES9219 works, based on ES9218 with extra circuit to remove the need of custom tuning. I am not a fan of custom tuning.
(attention: need to make sure the jack is in 'normal audio device mode'. more than 50% chance it detected my IEM as external device, and the sound is bad.)

LG V50 (V500N Korean model hw and firmware)
Bass quality 5
- Bass drum doesn't sound realistic. And there is an area of bass frequency that is blurred.
Fullness and tone 6
- Sound characteristic is like many Japanese portable audio devices. The mids and bass are not full, I don't know how to describe this, it sounds 'small and sweet', instead of 'big and bold'. I feel that the sound is intentionally tuned to be like this (to fit asian market?).
Balance 8
- Not bad, slightly bass light.
Resolution and details 9
- Very good resolution and details, except the area of blurred bass frequency. otherwise it will be 10.
Overall: the dac chip is good. the but the tuning is not for all audience, not for all types of music.

Spectra X
Bass quality 8
- The transparency and amount of bass is great. However kick drum lacks density and realistic-ness, I can hear it, but can not feel it.
Fullness and tone 9
- Great, full and warm. Not as 'energetic' and LG V60. Driving power is better than other phones and portable dacs.
Balance 10
- Great, enjoyable
Resolution and details 9
- Great.
Overall: the best portable usb dac I have tried. the only little issue is the density of an area of bass.

Qudelix 5k
Bass quality 9
- Great.
Fullness and tone 6
- Not full, on the lean side, especially in the lower mids area.
Balance 9
- Okay, on the lean side.
Resolution and details 10
- The best of all of these I have tried. So fast, so detailed!
Overall: maybe that's due to the limitation of power, as a battery powered small bluetooth device and need to have long operation time. It is a great device given the limitation. But not for me, if all portable bluetooth DACs are like this, then I will not buy any of them in the future.

Meizu USB DAC Pro
Bass quality 9
- Great.
Fullness and tone 9
- Great, and alot of driving power.
Balance 8
- A little bit too much bass
Resolution and details 7
- Not as detailed as others.
Overall: Main issue is detail,resolution, and a little bit too much bass. But given the price, it is the best value.

LG V30 (Tmobile edition, no special sound tuning)
Bass quality 9
- Great, but not as good as V60
Fullness and tone 8
- Good, but not as good as V60. V60 is more 'realistic' everywhere.
Balance 9
- Good, a little on the lean side.
Resolution and details 10
- Great, I tend to think it is more detailed and more airy than V60.
Overall: Without special tuning, the sound is better.

Meizu Pro5
Bass quality 9
- Great, but not as good as V60
Fullness and tone 9
- Great, but not as good as V60. V60 is more 'realistic' everywhere.
Balance 10
- Great
Resolution and details 9
- Great, not as good as V30
Overall: Very good. I like it more than all other phones, except V60.

Side notes:
I have tried several phones with 'big audio brand' tuning, including LG V20 B&O edition, LG V50 (Meridian tuned), Meridian USB DAC, Meizu Pro5 special firmware versions which has audio algorithms tuned by 'famous musicians'.
After some time I either returned / sold them, or flashed firmware back to 'stock' edition. Because the sound got special unnatural treatments here and there, make the device not suitable for all types of musics and headphones.
I don't know why, I can only guess, these big brands or musicians have their special types of favorite music, and their special headphones. they tuned the dac based on their special artistic perspective.

 

[boodi]

@yfei interesting findings ( v60 sound signature i.e. ) ,
thanks for taking the time .

It makes a lot of sense to give bass reproduction in portables or ultraportables ( dongles ) a most important spot ,
as they seem to struggle in a way or another when processing/building this part of the frequency range.
I do not dislike Meridian tuning , I find it quite convenient ( i.e. v30 doesn't have Meridian tuning on board , and shows less refinement or a more rough edge )
anyhow I see what you are reporting in your write up .
I am curious as to what full size headphones did you use for the comparison , if you had any chance to use them .

 

[yfei]

@yfei interesting findings ( v60 sound signature i.e. ) ,
thanks for taking the time .
It makes a lot of sense to give bass reproduction in portables or ultraportables ( dongles ) a most important spot ,
as they seem to struggle in a way or another when processing/building this part of the frequency range.
I do not dislike Meridian tuning , I find it quite convenient ( i.e. v30 doesn't have Meridian tuning on board , and shows less refinement or a more rough edge )
anyhow I see what you are reporting in your write up .
I am curious as to what full size headphones did you use for the comparison , if you had any chance to use them .

For the comparison I have only used IEM: 64 Audio U12, and a Chinese brand 8+2 hybrid IEM (8BA + 2 DD) consistently across all players.

I have briefly tried SONY V6 and Hifiman HD560 on some of the players. What I have found out: LG V60 doesn't have enough power to make HD560 sound right, with LG V60 -> Schiit Magnii HD560 sounded perfect. Meizu Pro5 can drive HD560 better than V60, it is listenable, enjoyable.
(Meizu Pro5 has a separate dedicated amp circuit after ES9018. while V60 and all other LG phones only use ESS chip's built-in amp, with no dedicated amp chip)

 

[Windmolinos]

Meizu USB DAC Pro
Bass quality 9
- Great.
Fullness and tone 9
- Great, and alot of driving power.
Balance 8
- A little bit too much bass
Resolution and details 7
- Not as detailed as others.
Overall: Main issue is detail,resolution, and a little bit too much bass. But given the price, it is the best value.

Hi yfei and all...
I have been trying to buy the PRO version or Meizu's USB DAC, but it is totally discontinued, and looks like there will be no stock sales in the future.
I have some simple (but loved) CAL headphones (Creative Aurvana Live). Do you think that with the nonPRO version would be enough for them?
Do you recommend any other USB DAC for Android?
Thanks!

 

[yfei]

Hi yfei and all...
I have been trying to buy the PRO version or Meizu's USB DAC, but it is totally discontinued, and looks like there will be no stock sales in the future.
I have some simple (but loved) CAL headphones (Creative Aurvana Live). Do you think that with the nonPRO version would be enough for them?
Do you recommend any other USB DAC for Android?
Thanks!

From the review (and detailed measurements) here : https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/94991395
it seems Meizu HiFi vs Meizu HiFi Pro are the same clarity, only difference is amp power. 80mW@32Ω，13mW@300Ω； vs. 100mW@32Ω，13mW@300Ω；
I think MeiZu HiFi should be enough power.