[TheUnknow]

As you own the vivo xplay6, do you hear dsd tracks on it? Which dsd formats are supported in this phone? Can you feel any difference between dsd and flac on xplay6?

As i said here , i don't have DSDs.
I only used one vinyl rip in DSD format to test the DSD mode, but it was full of crackles so i gave up.
Also , DSD are huge in file size too, so i stay with CD quality or even Hi-Res (if file size isn't too big with benefit ...).

There is other owners of Xplay 6 here i think , maybe they can enlight you with DSD playback on it.

RishiGuru said this :

A close friend of mine, an audio buff to the core once traveled to China due to business reasons and had the opportunity to test the Xplay 6.
He listened to same songs on Xplay 6 and Lenovo Vibe X3 side-by-side and came to the following conclusion: both phones sounds near identical with any type of PCM audio files and HiFi mode enabled, having same audio sound signature & resolution.
But with native DSD playback enabled Xplay 6 goes to another realm and is a step above Vibe X3.
Only DSD64 is available for native playback, and on this mode it can slay many expensive portable players. I trust him and I regret not having one till date.

I think that says it all

 

[Sound Eq]

got the lg g8x , its ok, but my radsone hud100 sounds better. using usb audio player and tidal

 

[PsiCore]

got the lg g8x , its ok, but my radsone hud100 sounds better. using usb audio player and tidal

I've got my g8x yesterday and that's exactly what I needed sound wise - emotional warm sound with nice detail. I didn't hear the hud100, but from what I read it's more technical, so probably I wouldn't enjoy it that much.

 

[RishiGuru]

It seems that dsd format is necessary for you and you like it more than flac. I am thinking of trying dsd on my xplay6. Is there any real improvement ?

To me music is a source of pleasure that’s difficult to describe. In a way it transports me to another realm and the level of hustle bustle & stress in everyday life is reduced, I seem to breathe normally again. I start smiling, music has such magical capabilities.

In digital domain I don’t think there is any contest, to distinguish or discriminate between PCM and DSD. PCM’s soundstage no matter which headphone I use seems to be narrower and it seems to be thinner. To me DSD emulates analogue’s spatial distance between left and right but also somewhat in the depth dimension. And to me it is easily perceptible, it a difference between being there and the artist being here. I admit it’s subtle when compared with modern good PCM recordings but it is electrifying when you experience it in DSD. There is no fatigue that I can detect with my DSD recordings. Fatigue with old style PCM recording was a problem which never existed in DSDs.

The main hurdle however is finding the right DSD’s. They also tend to be rare and expensive. One of the recent recording studios that have pulled off some great DSD recordings are Stockfisch Records with Gunter Pauler at the helm. The five SACDs of “Closer To The Music” are to me the reference point of what recording quality should be. Then the two volumes of their “DMM-CD/SACD” recording are just magnificent.

Just like PCM audio CDs are 16-bit @ 44.1 kHz, SACDs are DSD64. When ripped from a SACD they exist as DSF or DFF file formats. DSF files are far better suited to music library management because they allow the inclusion of metadata. This embedded metadata includes the names of the audio contained and other data such as album art. Hence, a DSF file could be transferred to different smartphones and retain the same metadata. The size of a DSD64 file in DSF format is a big factor to consider, normally 6 to 7 times bigger than an equivalent FLAC (PCM) file. There are also DSD128 & DSD256 but the file sized grow huge and it’s now a case of diminishing returns.

I really enjoy listening DSDs on my Vivo NEX S and LG V30+. More so with NEX S as its sound signature is more analogue in nature, the tuning seems better suited for DSDs than LG’s be it V30+ or G8X. The "professional DSD mode" switch hidden under settings on NEX S is like a hidden 7th gear on your car. Switch to the 7th gear and you are immediately transported to the 7th heaven. You can now aurally feel the NEX S headphone output gain has increased, sound-stage is more wider than before and the overall details are more prominent. At least in my ears, that why I have two NEX S.

 

[Wormant1]

4) NEX S with low-impedance headphones have better control.

If my NEX 3S is comparable, then the upper limit for headphone impedance seem to be around 16Ω. It starts to struggle trying to drive 20Ω Shockwave III's

 

[RishiGuru]

If my NEX 3S is comparable, then the upper limit for headphone impedance seem to be around 16Ω. It starts to struggle trying to drive 20Ω Shockwave III's

Well Vivo NEX S have no issues driving even 50 ohms cans. Its all due to a more exotic internal audio hardware setup used on NEX S (Cirrus Logic CS43199) compared to NEX 3S. With Vivo X50 Pro+ (Cirrus Logic CS43131) the drive capability of headphones have risen to LG levels, I mean my LG V30+ (ESS ES9218P SABRE) have some more juice left over NEX S when required.

With NEX 3S, Vivo wanted to make an overall better device than its predecessor NEX S in which they succeeded. However designing smartphones is always a compromise when you have to hit a specific price bracket. So in-order to have more expensive curved displays and more number of cameras, they sacrificed on the audio part.

Don't get me wrong, NEX 3S (AKM AK4377A) still sounds good as I heard it for half an hour in a store. Even slightly better than my now sold Vivo X21 (AKM AK4376A) if I can remember correctly. But the AKM solutions for smartphones are not just there yet with ESS & Cirrus Logic counterparts. Hence NEX S or the LG V30+ have better audio performance over headphones by a good margin, both in terms of audio quality and amplification.

In the end if you are happy with the audio quality of NEX 3S, nothing else matters. Peace.

 

[CarolNowak]

To me music is a source of pleasure that’s difficult to describe. In a way it transports me to another realm and the level of hustle bustle & stress in everyday life is reduced, I seem to breathe normally again. I start smiling, music has such magical capabilities.

In digital domain I don’t think there is any contest, to distinguish or discriminate between PCM and DSD. PCM’s soundstage no matter which headphone I use seems to be narrower and it seems to be thinner. To me DSD emulates analogue’s spatial distance between left and right but also somewhat in the depth dimension. And to me it is easily perceptible, it a difference between being there and the artist being here. I admit it’s subtle when compared with modern good PCM recordings but it is electrifying when you experience it in DSD. There is no fatigue that I can detect with my DSD recordings. Fatigue with old style PCM recording was a problem which never existed in DSDs.

The main hurdle however is finding the right DSD’s. They also tend to be rare and expensive. One of the recent recording studios that have pulled off some great DSD recordings are Stockfisch Records with Gunter Pauler at the helm. The five SACDs of “Closer To The Music” are to me the reference point of what recording quality should be. Then the two volumes of their “DMM-CD/SACD” recording are just magnificent.

Just like PCM audio CDs are 16-bit @ 44.1 kHz, SACDs are DSD64. When ripped from a SACD they exist as DSF or DFF file formats. DSF files are far better suited to music library management because they allow the inclusion of metadata. This embedded metadata includes the names of the audio contained and other data such as album art. Hence, a DSF file could be transferred to different smartphones and retain the same metadata. The size of a DSD64 file in DSF format is a big factor to consider, normally 6 to 7 times bigger than an equivalent FLAC (PCM) file. There are also DSD128 & DSD256 but the file sized grow huge and it’s now a case of diminishing returns.

I really enjoy listening DSDs on my Vivo NEX S and LG V30+. More so with NEX S as its sound signature is more analogue in nature, the tuning seems better suited for DSDs than LG’s be it V30+ or G8X. The "professional DSD mode" switch hidden under settings on NEX S is like a hidden 7th gear on your car. Switch to the 7th gear and you are immediately transported to the 7th heaven. You can now aurally feel the NEX S headphone output gain has increased, sound-stage is more wider than before and the overall details are more prominent. At least in my ears, that why I have two NEX S.

Awesome explanation. Your posts are like well written essays with metaculsus detailing and deep knowledge. Are you a professional reviewer of audio products or something?

After reading your post I have an urge to listen dsd. Let's see. Xplay5s have reached my home and I listening on it for a day. Great sound. Sounds just like Vivo x5max just one step higher. I believe those who have x5max won't be awed by xplay5s.

 

[RishiGuru]

Awesome explanation.

Thanks.

Your posts are like well written essays with metaculsus detailing and deep knowledge. Are you a professional reviewer of audio products or something?

No. I am just a music lover. I just shared my opinion and glad you liked it.

After reading your post I have an urge to listen dsd. Let's see.

You can give it a try. Nothing wrong in trying.

Xplay5s have reached my home and I listening on it for a day. Great sound. Sounds just like Vivo x5max just one step higher.

Vivo Xplay 5s shares a similar audio hardware setup to that of its predecessor X5Max and most probably done by the same development team that makes their flagship products. This time with Xplay 5s, they just went a notch higher with twin DACs in differential mode which theoretically should improve SNR by 3dB over X5Max.

I believe those who have x5max won't be awed by xplay5s.

Hmm, so the audio improvements are not that huge over X5Max. How about the headphone jack output gain, I think it should improve.

In any product based company like smartphone manufacturers, the best engineers always team up to develop the flagship products. The manufacturer keeps the best minds for innovation and this the team which always designs and delivers their flagship products. So most probably it is the same team which did the Xplay 3s, subsequently developed the Xshot, X5Max, Xplay 5s & Xplay 6. To me Vivo first started innovating with their NEX lineup in 2018, this is first time their flagship NEX S had technologies that was not available on phones from other brands. Hence their first NEX project had undoubtedly had the best engineers, more engineers and a budget maybe thrice than that of their previous flagships like Xplay6. With that much more budget, best brains and man power means the end product will significantly improve by a good margin. That is exactly what I felt when I got hold of NEX S, the flagship product have improved from every angle by a significant margin.

 

[CarolNowak]

Thanks.



No. I am just a music lover. I just shared my opinion and glad you liked it.



You can give it a try. Nothing wrong in trying.



Vivo Xplay 5s shares a similar audio hardware setup to that of its predecessor X5Max and most probably done by the same development team that makes their flagship products. This time with Xplay 5s, they just went a notch higher with twin DACs in differential mode which theoretically should improve SNR by 3dB over X5Max.



Hmm, so the audio improvements are not that huge over X5Max. How about the headphone jack output gain, I think it should improve.

In any product based company like smartphone manufacturers, the best engineers always team up to develop the flagship products. The manufacturer keeps the best minds for innovation and this the team which always designs and delivers their flagship products. So most probably it is the same team which did the Xplay 3s, subsequently developed the Xshot, X5Max, Xplay 5s & Xplay 6. To me Vivo first started innovating with their NEX lineup in 2018, this is first time their flagship NEX S had technologies that was not available on phones from other brands. Hence their first NEX project had undoubtedly had the best engineers, more engineers and a budget maybe thrice than that of their previous flagships like Xplay6. With that much more budget, best brains and man power means the end product will significantly improve by a good margin. That is exactly what I felt when I got hold of NEX S, the flagship product have improved from every angle by a significant margin.

ok some updates after listening for a day with vivo xplay5s. 1st, i like xplay5s sound more than xplay 6. The resolution seems better, open airy sound with perfect balance. The balance of higs, lows & mids are very important with me. One should not over power the other. The vivo x5max sounds touch dry in comparing with xplay5s but resolution also touch better. Comparing x5max with xplay5s, the 5s is very slightly softer sounding but more sweet. No feel no loss in highs while mids seem better. Their is very less to choose from x5max and xplay5s the difference is very close where as xpaly6 is very different. I have always liked x5max for its balance over xplay6.

2nd, xplay5s has a bit more volume over x5max which is a welcome. The increase in volume is not so big but, 80% of xplay5s is 90% of x5max. The step in volume of xplay6 is much higher than both this phones. Overall I am happy listening music with both x5max and xplay5s they are very good. I prefer both of them over xplay6.

 

[CarolNowak]

As i said here , i don't have DSDs.
I only used one vinyl rip in DSD format to test the DSD mode, but it was full of crackles so i gave up.
Also , DSD are huge in file size too, so i stay with CD quality or even Hi-Res (if file size isn't too big with benefit ...).

There is other owners of Xplay 6 here i think , maybe they can enlight you with DSD playback on it.

RishiGuru said this :


I think that says it all

I have decided to try DSD. But before I never found DSD of the album I like. I have found closer to music dsd set as said by rishiguru in a Russian torrent site. All users are of the forum who commented on that post says they are blown away buy the audio quality of the tracks. Tracks are jazz folk and country music in English.

https://www.stockfisch-records.de/pages_art/sf12_cttm5_e.html

I have no SACD player hence not thinking of buying the SACD discs. Also I don't know the way to rip music from SACD to DSD dff files.

 

[Hyperfluxe]

What kind of SQ downgrade can I expect going from an LG V60 to a Sony Xperia 1 II (straight 3.5mm output)? I can't stand the low refresh rate on the V60 anymore and really don't like the form factor - price doesn't matter, it's for work purposes. This is strictly for on-the-go so I don't want to use a USB-C dongle (currently own DF Cobalt and FiiO BTR5, latter has been collecting dust and former was a bad purchase out of impulse a few months ago, planning on getting Qudelix 5K). I'll switch back to the V70 if LG finally increases the RR to at least 90hz. I can't find a single online source comparing the V60 to the Xperia 1 II in terms of SQ.

 

[RishiGuru]

ok some updates after listening for a day with vivo xplay5s. 1st, i like xplay5s sound more than xplay 6. The resolution seems better, open airy sound with perfect balance. The balance of higs, lows & mids are very important with me. One should not over power the other. The vivo x5max sounds touch dry in comparing with xplay5s but resolution also touch better. Comparing x5max with xplay5s, the 5s is very slightly softer sounding but more sweet. No feel no loss in highs while mids seem better. Their is very less to choose from x5max and xplay5s the difference is very close where as xpaly6 is very different. I have always liked x5max for its balance over xplay6.

2nd, xplay5s has a bit more volume over x5max which is a welcome. The increase in volume is not so big but, 80% of xplay5s is 90% of x5max. The step in volume of xplay6 is much higher than both this phones. Overall I am happy listening music with both x5max and xplay5s they are very good. I prefer both of them over xplay6.

A very good insight and subjective comparison between the trio. Seems I do not miss out much on my Vivo X5Max over Vivo Xplay5s. As expected Xplay5s is a fraction ahead in audio quality and more gain through headphone jack.

Quickly comparing the DACs used in both, the differences seems negligible. X5Max uses ESS ES9018K2M while Xplay5s have ESS ES9028Q2M. Both are stereo DACs with same THD of -120 dB, while ES9028Q2M edges by 2dB in DNR to 129dB. Next Xplay5s uses two such stereo DACs, one per channel in mono. This differential setup should raise signal-to-noise ratio by another 3dB. However these are all theoretical figures while the actual SNR is much lower through headphone jack as the audio signal needs to pass through other components as below.

ESS are current DACs and headphones only understands voltage, hence current-to-voltage conversion is required. I/V converters comes into scene and here X5Max uses something special. An ESS SABRE9601K headphone amplifier, converted to an I/V converter by a special switch which can only be enabled in it when paired with an ESS dac. The voltage output is pretty high in this case, much higher than TI OPA1612 used for the same job in Xplay5s. It is to note OPA1612 is a stereo op-amp, hence each of its channel is fed by one ES9028Q2M.

Now comes the final headphone amplifier stage. X5Max uses one OPA1612 op-amp as a headphone amplifier. It is used to further amplify the voltage output from SABRE9601K to the audio jack. In comparison Xplay5s uses a pair of stacked OPA1612 as headphone amplifiers. Xplay5s should have a high gain mode where both OPA1612's gets activated and the resultant output voltage is slightly higher than X5Max hence more volume.

Vivo X5Max: ESS ES9018K2M SABRE (DAC) + ESS SABRE9601K (I/V converter) + Texas Instruments OPA1612 (Headphone Amplifier)

Vivo Xplay5s: 2 X ESS ES9028Q2M (Differential mode) + Texas Instruments OPA1612 (I/V converter) + 2 X Texas Instruments OPA1612 (Headphone Amplifier)

I believe the use of SABRE9601K in X5Max is what separates the sound signature between the two. In the end it is the audio hardware design on both phones, its implementation and the experience of the team who designed both resulted in great sound quality, rather than just hard numbers of DACs and all.

Enjoy.

 

[RishiGuru]

What kind of SQ downgrade can I expect going from an LG V60 to a Sony Xperia 1 II (straight 3.5mm output)? I can't stand the low refresh rate on the V60 anymore and really don't like the form factor - price doesn't matter, it's for work purposes. This is strictly for on-the-go so I don't want to use a USB-C dongle (currently own DF Cobalt and FiiO BTR5, latter has been collecting dust and former was a bad purchase out of impulse a few months ago, planning on getting Qudelix 5K). I'll switch back to the V70 if LG finally increases the RR to at least 90hz. I can't find a single online source comparing the V60 to the Xperia 1 II in terms of SQ.

You need someone who appreciates, understands sound quality and owns the Sony Xperia 1 II. Alas I could not help as Sony left their smartphones business in India back in 2018 with a record 0.01% market share. Sony Xperia 1 II uses a Qualcomm Aqstic audio codec.

The flagship Qualcomm Aqstic audio codecs have very good DACs built it, it all depends on how Sony implemented it. In my Meizu 16th (the company understands audio) the Aqstic WCD9341 have its own dedicated power supply working in high performance mode. It even have its own metal housing on PCB to reduce EMI. In this way sound quality seems slightly better in my ears over Vivo X9 having AKM AK4375. Headphone drive capability remains the same.

If Sony implements the same audio codec like OnePlus 6 (a company which does not appreciate audio quality) in low performance mode, performance will be just OK and drive will be anemic.

 

[emad]

Which phone sounds like cowon?

 

[artpiggo]

Which phone sounds like cowon?

xplay6