[monsieurfromag3]

What's the situation with aptx HD and smartphones?
Are these in the link the only ones who support aptx HD?
https://www.aptx.com/product-listing?product_category=11&aptx_type=2

Or is it more like every smartphone with a respective version of Android (e.g. 9, 10) already has aptx HD onboard?

The list on Qualcomm’s aptX website is hopelessly out of date. Not all smartphones support aptX HD, so it’s sadly still a case-by-case investigation, but many more devices support it than appear on the website.

 

[Romeo Dolorosa]

Nokia 3.1 :
Android 9 (so LDAC)
Android stock

Thank you for the recommendation, this phone has been brought up before, has there been an Android 10 update for this particular phone, it seems there updates for the newer variants but I am unsure if that also applies to the original and smaller 3.1.
While it is likely narrow enough this is still a taller phone than the XZ2 but it really seems there aren't ANY small phones available on the market.

 

[CarolNowak]

I live in India, hence I buy smartphones which are readily available here and are Google certified. Google eco-system and its security are mandatory requirements for me in a phone. Almost all major smartphone manufacturers have their manufacturing plants in our country and phones are relatively cheaper than other countries due to fierce market competition.

I personally own following phones with dedicated DACs:

1) LG V30+ (A pair of them)

HiFi Mode: ESS ES9218P SABRE (DAC + Integrated Headphone Amplifier, LG's QuadDAC)
Standard Mode: Qualcomm Aqstic WCD9341
Native DSD Playback Support: Yes (DSD64 & DSD128)
Soc: Qualcomm Snapdragon 835
OS: Android 9
---

2) Vivo NEX (Vivo NEX S in China)

HiFi Mode: Cirrus Logic CS43199 (DAC) + 3 X Analog Devices SSM6322 (Headphone Amplifiers, stacked triple-stage amplification)
Standard Mode: Qualcomm Aqstic WCD9340
Native DSD Playback Support: Yes (DSD64)
Soc: Qualcomm Snapdragon 845
OS: Android 10
---

3) Lenovo Vibe X3

HiFi Mode: ESS ES9018C2M SABRE (DAC) + Texas Instruments OPA1612 (I/V converter) + 2 X Texas Instruments OPA1612 (Headphone Amplifiers, stacked two-stage amplification)
Standard Mode: Wolfson WM8281
Native DSD Playback Support: No
Soc: Qualcomm Snapdragon 810
OS: Android 6.1
---

4) Vivo X5Max

HiFi Mode: ESS ES9018K2M SABRE (DAC) + ESS SABRE9601K (I/V converter) + Texas Instruments OPA1612 (Headphone Amplifier)
Standard Mode: Qualcomm generic audio codec
Native DSD Playback Support: No
Soc: Qualcomm Snapdragon 615
OS: Android 4.4
---

5) Vivo V5Plus (Vivo X9 in China)

HiFi Mode: AKM AK4376 (DAC + Integrated Headphone Amplifier)
Standard Mode: Qualcomm generic audio codec
Native DSD Playback Support: No
Soc: Qualcomm Snapdragon 625
OS: Android 7.1.2
---

6) Meizu 16th (Meizu 16 in China)

Standard Mode: Qualcomm Aqstic WCD9341 (DAC + Integrated Headphone Amplifier)
(A better implementation than AKM AK4376, as implemented in high performance mode in 16th)
Native DSD Playback Support: No
Soc: Qualcomm Snapdragon 845
OS: Android 8.1
---

I am a music lover. My job requires lot of travelling so I pick smartphones with good music playback capabilities & great audio quality over 3.5 mm audio jack.

It all started in 2014, when I first bought the Vivo X5Max. Stellar audio quality courtesy the holy trinity of ES9018K2M, SABRE9601K and OPA1612 combination in a phone. Audio was heaven on earth back then on this phone. Still is. I listen to this phone even today, it has the level of resolution & detail which was unheard back then and still is. Very accurate and natural sounding and sometimes may sound downright clinical. However it has the level of audio resolution which is very hard to come by in smartphones. To my eyes a collectors item. However it lacked the juice to power proper sized cans, hence best options were to stick to good in-ear earphones and maybe some very efficient headphones. And may I add X5Max holds the record of the thinnest smartphone in the world at just 5.1 mm and still Vivo was able to add a headphone jack with excellent audio quality. I just laugh when jerks speak removal of audio jacks was necessary to slim down the phone.

The next phone I bought was the Lenovo Vibe X3. Back in 2016, this phone was selling like hot cakes in our country. A proper flagship of a phone with great audio capabilities. Vibe X3 simply put in my eyes was Lenovo's (aka Motorola) best phone ever created in its respective time-frame. Using an even more advanced ESS dac and stacked dual-stage OPA1612 headphone amplifiers instead of just one in X5Max, it provided what X5Max desperately lacked, the ability to drive big over-the-ear headphones. From headphone drive perspective this was definitely a huge jump in the right direction for a smartphone. X3 had two dedicated audio paths. The "Turbo Hi-Fi" is for purists using ES9018C2M and triple OPA1612 configuration. The sound quality was sublime, more melodious and slightly mellower sounding than X5Max. But this time with good amount of drive capability. You can properly drive Sennheiser HD598 with Vibe X3. The "Standard Hi-Fi" on the other hand used Wolfson WM8281 audio codec, which was leagues ahead of Qualcomm audio solutions back then. Vibe X3 was also the overall better device of the two. And X3 had the best front firing stereo speaker I have ever heard on any phone. Period. It even had Dolby ATMOS so the speakers sounded very musical. It was a complete multimedia powerhouse. I am a keeper so I still own my Vibe X3.

A year later Vivo introduced the Xplay 6, with slightly upgraded but near identical audio hardware setup to Lenovo Vibe X3 as mentioned below:

Lenovo Vibe X3: ESS ES9018C2M SABRE (DAC) + Texas Instruments OPA1612 (I/V converter) + 2 X Texas Instruments OPA1612 (Headphone Amplifiers, stacked two-stage amplification)
Vivo Xplay 6: ESS ES9038Q2M SABRE (DAC) + Texas Instruments OPA1622 (I/V converter) + 2 X Texas Instruments OPA1622 (Headphone Amplifiers, stacked two-stage amplification)

I was very keen on this device as it was Vivo's first phone with native DSD playback capability with hardware decoding support inside the DAC. This produces the best audio quality I can think off. This was the first opportunity for me to load all the precious DSD collection as DSF & DFF files in a smartphone. Sadly Vivo India never launched this phone here. A close friend of mine, an audio buff to the core once traveled to China due to business reasons and had the opportunity to test the Xplay 6. He listened to same songs on Xplay 6 and Lenovo Vibe X3 side-by-side and came to the following conclusion: Both phones sounds near identical with any type of PCM audio files and HiFi mode enabled, having same audio sound signature & resolution. But with native DSD playback enabled Xplay 6 goes to another realm and is a step above Vibe X3. Only DSD64 is available for native playback, and on this mode it can slay many expensive portable players. I trust him and I regret not having one till date.

Next LG V30+ grabbed my attention. I always knew V series was great for audio so had a V30+ for last two years. I am so impressed with this phone I recently bought another one for my wife. I got the new one three month back for a bargain price of $150 brand new. Simply put the ESS ES9218P SABRE (Quad DAC) is one of the best audio implementations I have ever heard on a smartphone. B&O tuned V30+ have the attack of X5Max, actually it is the big brother of X5Max in maintaining the same sound signature. Natural sounding, crystal clear, ultra revealing are some words that come to my mind while thinking of V30+. But the biggest advantage of ES9218P SABRE is headphone drive capability, with 2 Vrms in disposal. I am able to drive almost all of my over the ear headphones with ease. The second biggest advantage of V30+ is native DSD playback with support for both DSD64 & DSD128. Having 128GB internal memory + 256 GB memory card, it has all the space required for my entire DSD collection in the phone.

The last phone I want to talk about is my Vivo NEX (NEX S in China). Very few people know about this phone. I own one as it is readily available in India with full Google certification in place. Not only is it a high end flagship device with SD845 & 8 gigs of ram but as you have guessed very good headphone audio quality with 130 dB SNR & -115 dB (THD+N). The NEX is the only other phone that can truly rival the LG's Quad DAC while having a sound signature that is drastically different compared to LGs. This makes NEX so special to me. Every DAC manufacturer have its own sound signature, hence playing back the same song on LG V30+ & Vivo NEX provides very different experiences with same headphones. Where as with V30+ the sound signature is detailed with incredible instrument separation and a vertically narrow sound-stage, the NEX with Cirrus Logic DACs produces warm, textured sound with awesome vocals and super wide sound-stage in the horizontal plain. Vocals just shine on NEX and this phone have the ability to create a big sound stage. If you hear Norah Jones on NEX, it feels like you are in her live concert, but if you hear the same song on V30+, it will picking every nuances of her breath while she is singing the song and reveal every micro-detail of the song. NEX also have a lot of headphone driving power just like the V30+, and with cans over 50 ohms NEX starts to flex its muscles. Micro details now gets even more prominent on NEX.

Lastly, NEX has perhaps the best native DSD playback in a phone. It is only the second phone from Vivo's stable after Xplay 6 to support native DSD playback. It supports only DSD64, but the level is much higher than DSD128 on my LG V30+. I am talking on a subjective level though. In NEX there is a dedicated professional DSD mode switch in sound settings. If that switch is disabled and I play DSD64, DSD128, DSD256 files, all files will be software decoded from DSD to PCM by the default music player and get played. But if I enable the DSD switch, its like Pure Direct mode gets enabled, and all other types of notification sounds gets immediately disabled. In this mode raw DSD gets fed to the DAC for hardware decoding inside the DAC. I can now play DSD64 using default music player while NEX produces the best DSD listening experience to my ears on a smartphone. Others may vary.

So yeah.. it all boils down to two phones for me, LG V30+ and Vivo NEX S. I cannot choose one, I need both for providing two distinctly different flavors of the same song in my ears. Now the choice is yours.

Wow, thanks for sharing your incredible journey and amazing collection of audio centric smartphones. I have the x5max and xplay6 and guess what I prefer x5 over xp6 any day for music. xp6 is less reveling than x5. I was itching for the vivo nex s but the price was high at $675 plus shipping back then.

 

[TheUnknow]

Thank you for the recommendation, this phone has been brought up before, has there been an Android 10 update for this particular phone, it seems there updates for the newer variants but I am unsure if that also applies to the original and smaller 3.1.
While it is likely narrow enough this is still a taller phone than the XZ2 but it really seems there aren't ANY small phones available on the market.

You're right , Nokia 3.1 Plus just received Android 10 few months ago , but the regular Nokia 3.1, i guess it won't ...

If you plan to keep your source for a long time , XZ2 Compact is a better investment than Nokia 3.1 , even if it cost much.

Small phones are becoming very rare, indeed.
You can also get an old flagship smartphone like Galaxy S7 (still decent this days) and install a custom Android 10 rom :

 

[RishiGuru]

Wow, thanks for sharing your incredible journey and amazing collection of audio centric smartphones. I have the x5max and xplay6 and guess what I prefer x5 over xp6 any day for music. xp6 is less reveling than x5. I was itching for the vivo nex s but the price was high at $675 plus shipping back then.

Thank you for those kind words.

Vivo X5Max is truly a masterpiece when it comes to sound quality over headphone jack. I believe the epitome of neutral sounding smartphones in Vivo lineup peaked with Xplay 5S (2016) closely followed by its predecessor X5Max (2015). These two are the kings of detail retrieval and audio tuning is done just right. Internally both used ESS dacs and Texas Instruments OPA1612 op-amps acting as headphone amplifiers.

From 2017, with Xplay 6 and subsequently NEX S of 2018, Vivo went in a different route in terms of sound signature. These smartphones are more warm sounding which comes with its own unique advantages and support for native DSD playback capabilities. Native DSD playback is a very rare feature in smartphones. Jazz, folk, classical sound mesmerizing on my NEX S.

In actuality I am so impressed with my NEX S, for its audio, built quality, display quality, sustained raw performance, camera, battery backup & fast charging that now I own two of them. After two years from launch, they are now selling cheap at $300 a piece.

 

[Romeo Dolorosa]

You're right , Nokia 3.1 Plus just received Android 10 few months ago , but the regular Nokia 3.1, i guess it won't ...

That is what I suspected, thanks nevertheless for confirming it.

If you plan to keep your source for a long time , XZ2 Compact is a better investment than Nokia 3.1 , even if it cost much.

The thing, the prices for good ones in mint condition are rather going up than down, and I am not really willing to pay that much for a phone that will likely won't get another update after Android 10 (correct if I am wrong there?!)

You can also get an old flagship smartphone like Galaxy S7 (still decent this days) and install a custom Android 10 rom :

Thank you for the suggestion, I installed a custom rom on two phones and one tablet so I think I am not too stupid for this stuff but for a phone that I rely on, IMO it is too much of a hassle and has to many drawbacks but to each his own. So far with none of the custom roms I tried there were working OTA system updates and that is a dealbreaker for me.

Small phones are becoming very rare, indeed.

All I really want is small phone with the size of an iPhone 5 with small bezels and specs that don't make it feel sluggish with another one two updates to Android - I really don't understand why there is no manufacturer filling this niche. I bet the XZ2 Compact would have been a success if it hadn't been that expensive but maybe I am really overestimating the market for a midrange small screen phone? :-/

 

[CarolNowak]

What about X6 Plus ( ES9028Q2M / ES9603 ) ? Anyone tested it ?

Do not go for vivo x6+ or x9+ when you have xplay5 and 6. I had both x6 and x9 and sold them as they were not as good as my vivo x5max in audio. Does not have the drive of x5max and sounds thin in comparison and lacks the balance. After lot of haunting I got hold of a used xxplay5s and waiting for the delivery. However I have never seen the amount of focus vivo had for audio like the x5max in their other phones. Not even in xplay5 or xplay6 or nex s. Below are some images sharing for fun about x5max I had from long time before.

 

[CarolNowak]

Thank you for those kind words.

Vivo X5Max is truly a masterpiece when it comes to sound quality over headphone jack. I believe the epitome of neutral sounding smartphones in Vivo lineup peaked with Xplay 5S (2016) closely followed by its predecessor X5Max (2015). These two are the kings of detail retrieval and audio tuning is done just right. Internally both used ESS dacs and Texas Instruments OPA1612 op-amps acting as headphone amplifiers.

From 2017, with Xplay 6 and subsequently NEX S of 2018, Vivo went in a different route in terms of sound signature. These smartphones are more warm sounding which comes with its own unique advantages and support for native DSD playback capabilities. Native DSD playback is a very rare feature in smartphones. Jazz, folk, classical sound mesmerizing on my NEX S.

In actuality I am so impressed with my NEX S, for its audio, built quality, display quality, sustained raw performance, camera, battery backup & fast charging that now I own two of them. After two years from launch, they are now selling cheap at $300 a piece.

Where did you get the nex s for 300 dollars? That's an amazing deal for a new phone. I cannot find it in aliexpress. How is the new vivo x50pp? Damn it does not have headphone jack. Sorry for my English.

 

[TheUnknow]

Do not go for vivo x6+ or x9+ when you have xplay5 and 6. I had both x6 and x9 and sold them as they were not as good as my vivo x5max in audio. Does not have the drive of x5max and sounds thin in comparison and lacks the balance. After lot of haunting I got hold of a used xxplay5s and waiting for the delivery. However I have never seen the amount of focus vivo had for audio like the x5max in their other phones. Not even in xplay5 or xplay6 or nex s. Below are some images sharing for fun about x5max I had from long time before.

X6 and X6s are equipped with AKM4375.
X9 and X9s , with AKM4376.
X6 Plus and X6s Plus , ES9028 + ES9603.
X9 Plus , ES9018 + ES9603.
X9s Plus , ES9318 + ES9603.

It would be really surprising that normal and S versions of X6 and X9 (with AK chips) have the same audio tunning than Plus versions ...

 

[CarolNowak]

X6 and X6s are equipped with AKM4375.
X9 and X9s , with AKM4376.
X6 Plus and X6s Plus , ES9028 + ES9603.
X9 Plus , ES9018 + ES9603
X9s Plus , ES9318 + ES9603

It would be really surprising that normal and S versions of X6 and X9 (with AK chips) have the same audio tunning than Plus versions ...

.

I had both x6plus and x9plus and they were not as good as my x5max. The x6plus was better than x9plus in terms of see through sound and resolution and much better than any normal phone with no dedicated dac. The x5max have the ultimate balance on bass, mids and treble and as I said ago sounds just right. It is also more powerful with headphones that x6plus and x9plus. It is for this balance I like x5max more than my xplay6 when hearing music. Sorry for my bad English, hope I make myself clear.

 

[RishiGuru]

Where did you get the nex s for 300 dollars? That's an amazing deal for a new phone. I cannot find it in aliexpress. How is the new vivo x50pp? Damn it does not have headphone jack. Sorry for my English.

Due to very stiff market competition among smartphone manufacturers in India, we get mobile phones should we say at much more competitive prices than rest of the world (except China). Also major manufacturers have their production plants here, which keeps the costs at bay. Same way, Vivo or better put Vivo India is a registered company here with its own manufacturing plants pumping out gazillions of phones each year. So when their phone models are 2 or more years old they just clear the stock from local production plants at absurd low prices, maybe just asking for the hardware cost for these brand new devices. I got my second Vivo NEX S under such clearance sale at $300.

Regarding Vivo X50 Pro+, well it seems to be China bound only at this point of time. I think strategically it makes no sense for them to let X50 Pro+ internationally available when they have the same phone slightly re-engineered & re-badged as iQOO 5 with gaming focus. I am actually waiting for Vivo NEX 5 which will be their flagship. Most probably it will continue the current industry trend & stupid move of ripping out the headphone jack and forcing customers to shell out extra for TWS.

From what the reviews I had read about X50 Pro+ from a Chinese publication, below is the gist which I can make:

1) X50 Pro+ has no headphone jack, so the editor used the company supplied USB adapter to connect to headphones.
2) The editor made comparisons between NEX S & X50 Pro+. Both uses inbuilt Cirrus Logic DACs.
3) X50 Pro+ have slightly more headphone drive capability than NEX S.
4) X50 Pro+ is slightly more detailed than NEX S, but this adds to a coarse texture or graininess in high frequencies.
4) NEX S with low-impedance headphones have better control. High-impedance headphones drive & sound better with X50 Pro+.
5) X50 Pro+ is currently in the TOP 3 list of best sounding smartphone under production in China.
6) NEX S has overall better sound quality, a more balanced sound signature than X50 Pro+.
7) NEX S is still the best sounding smartphone currently in production from China.

Note: These were the editor notes and how he thinks of both smartphones perform sonically in a subjective way. I always take these reviews with a pinch of salt, so grossly you can take the outcome as the X50 Pro+ is an excellent sounding smartphone minus the headphone jack.

 

[RishiGuru]

X6 and X6s are equipped with AKM4375.
X9 and X9s , with AKM4376 (Same).
X6 Plus and X6s Plus , ES9028 + ES9603.
X9 Plus , ES9018 + ES9603.
X9s Plus , ES9318 + ES9603.

It would be really surprising that normal and S versions of X6 and X9 (with AK chips) have the same audio tunning than Plus versions ...

Your smartphone database seems to be very rich with specifications .

 

[TheUnknow]

Your smartphone database seems to be very rich with specifications .

Yeah , very usefull.
The only downsides is that they don't list the number of DAC or Op Amp in audio section, and there is small mistakes (like Xplay 6 comes with ES9038Q2M and not ES9038 Pro) .

 

[CarolNowak]

Due to very stiff market competition among smartphone manufacturers in India, we get mobile phones should we say at much more competitive prices than rest of the world (except China). Also major manufacturers have their production plants here, which keeps the costs at bay. Same way, Vivo or better put Vivo India is a registered company here with its own manufacturing plants pumping out gazillions of phones each year. So when their phone models are 2 or more years old they just clear the stock from local production plants at absurd low prices, maybe just asking for the hardware cost for these brand new devices. I got my second Vivo NEX S under such clearance sale at $300.

Regarding Vivo X50 Pro+, well it seems to be China bound only at this point of time. I think strategically it makes no sense for them to let X50 Pro+ internationally available when they have the same phone slightly re-engineered & re-badged as iQOO 5 with gaming focus. I am actually waiting for Vivo NEX 5 which will be their flagship. Most probably it will continue the current industry trend & stupid move of ripping out the headphone jack and forcing customers to shell out extra for TWS.

From what the reviews I had read about X50 Pro+ from a Chinese publication, below is the gist which I can make:

1) X50 Pro+ has no headphone jack, so the editor used the company supplied USB adapter to connect to headphones.
2) The editor made comparisons between NEX S & X50 Pro+. Both uses inbuilt Cirrus Logic DACs.
3) X50 Pro+ have slightly more headphone drive capability than NEX S.
4) X50 Pro+ is slightly more detailed than NEX S, but this adds to a coarse texture or graininess in high frequencies.
4) NEX S with low-impedance headphones have better control. High-impedance headphones drive & sound better with X50 Pro+.
5) X50 Pro+ is currently in the TOP 3 list of best sounding smartphone under production in China.
6) NEX S has overall better sound quality, a more balanced sound signature than X50 Pro+.
7) NEX S is still the best sounding smartphone currently in production from China.

Note: These were the editor notes and how he thinks of both smartphones perform sonically in a subjective way. I always take these reviews with a pinch of salt, so grossly you can take the outcome as the X50 Pro+ is an excellent sounding smartphone minus the headphone jack.

Thanks for your views and comparison between nex s and x50pp. Seems nex s still has the edge. Meanwhile I will be having my xxplay5s anytime today and anxiously waiting for listening. Hope it can improve upon my x5max as the phone is 5 years old and shows signs of aeging. however it works wonderfully if you just use it as a audio player and the phone is a piece of art. I already got hold of a spare original battery which will elongate it's lifeline for 5 more years. You guys are really lucky in India as I went to Amazon India and found phones are really cheap there. Unfortunately they do not do overseas delivery. You have so much support from Vivo there with their service centers if ever the phone broke.

It seems that dsd format is necessary for you and you like it more than flac. I am thinking of trying dsd on my xplay6. Is there any real improvement ?

 

[CarolNowak]

Yeah , very usefull.
The only downsides is that they don't list the number of DAC or Op Amp in audio section, and there is small mistakes (like Xplay 6 comes with ES9038Q2M and not ES9038 Pro) .

As you own the vivo xplay6, do you hear dsd tracks on it? Which dsd formats are supported in this phone? Can you feel any difference between dsd and flac on xplay6?