[starence]

  Does it really make a difference what player you use? Honest question here, just getting into listening at my desk. I normally use VLC for my FLAC's

To me, there is an obvious difference between various players, I know many people believe they're pretty much all the same though.

 

[castleofargh]

not all players do the same things, they might not all output the signal the same way. with volume level adjustment some will go 32 or 64bit and then output back to whatever resolution the signal was or whatever you have set(and it could change again if windows is set to something else and not bypassed). some may go through windows mixer, be impacted by whatever crap hides in the soundcard drivers(THX, DR dre, gremlins of all kinds). this may also impact the sample rate if some DSP is applied, or if you output using asio instead wasapi... some resamplers are effectively better than others(like sox is usually prefered to windows own resampler) so that could slightly change the signal.
of course if different players don't reach the DAC with the same sample rate, it's also possible that you're getting audible differences from the DAC itself and some non transparent filter at 16/44.
also some players will have some effect set ON by default after the install. it's rare for windows players, but it happened a few times with some android players I've tried.
 
all that can in some cases lead to a very audible difference, there is no point pretending that it will never happen. the default sound card on my laptop is absolutely not transparent. but we can almost always deal with those differences, looking for bit perfect methods(asio, wasapi, KS), checking all the settings in the player and in windows if we're unsure ofwhat matters, and end up with a virtually identical signal down to almost the LSB.
 of course if an altered sound feels nicer we can just as well pick that as our default player, but then one needs to be careful before bragging about "superior" sound. nicer to the ear doesn't mean superior objective fidelity.
 
RMAA has a free version and with any ok soundcard input and a proper interconnect cable, everybody can hope to loop his system and check objectively if something important is going on. it might only help to show very obvious differences with a not so good soundcard input, but it's already enough to notice an EQ or a DSP applied without you knowing. so IMO it's a relevant test to do.
 
 
personally I pick my players for what they can do, not for what sound they have. cool UI, easy integration of VSTs, replay gain, gapless, keyboard shortcuts, etc.

 

[bilboda]

Bughead Emperor, hands down. No bells and whistles for music management but it has bells and whistles for music playback that you have never heard before. The developer is a gifted obsessed Japanese coder who has very little English but getting it going is worth the effort. Threads on the jplay and computer audiophile forums are where you will find the info. Sort thru it all. I've used Jriver and Foobar and have hear good things about Roon and HQP but this one is free (donationware). Since it is free, you owe it to yourself to give it a try.

 

[Buellerich]

Contrarily to the theoretically acclaimed equality of bit perfect players I had to learn that there are indeed sound differences among players.
A few posts before someone wrote about the journey through Computer audio and it was justly stated that each traveller might be on a different location on that trip, how right. This position depends on PC hardware and of course on the DAC in use, just to name two important components. It is unlikely that different combinations react to software(tweaking) in the same way, that is the problem,which prevents general statements.
That is why it is inevitable to talk in terms of "...my setup..."
Coming back to recommendations I can only encourage to try JPLAY. Play with the settings, in my case KS, Ultrastream with 1 hz is second to no other constellation. Although the JPLAY streamer setup is primarily designed for a dual PC setup, it also works on asingle PC with Minimserver as UPNP server.In my case the choice of the control point is also crucial.Try UPPLAY, which gives great ,balanced results. If you chase details try Foobar with it's Unpn component. For me sound quality is of primary importance, the rest comes much later

 

[TheAttorney]

I think both JPlay and Bug head Emperor are suitable for those that like to tinker around with their hifi in pursuit of the highest possible SQ.
 
But they are not suitable for those that prefer an all round music player that has good SQ, but also good UI and library management.
 
I have tried JPlay about a year ago, but it's UI was unbelievably crude as a standalone music player. Along the lines of: Open up a DOS-like window, go to your music folder and select some files and copy&paste them into the DOS-like window. Apologies if they've moved on since then, but JPlay makes much more sense if used as a plug-in to another music app. I gave up when JRiver deliberately prevented JPlay from being allowed as a plug-in.
 
I never tried BHE because I was not prepared to spend 3 years contemplating the meaning of life in an isolated monastery in the Himalayas - just to be able understand what the BHE's creator was on about

 

[Buellerich]

Good afternoon

Yes I completely agree regarding Bughead. In spite of being highly curious I refrained from testing it, because the way it is supported is below minimum.
As far as JPLAY mini is concerned you are right, it is ultra minimalism. But via JPLAY streamer it is easy to combine it with a more attractive front end.
Additionally I do not require a huge bundle of DSP since upsampling plus filtering is done y the dac.
At the moment I am still on the search also and have not come to a final result yet.
Still want to test xxxHighend and Resonic. Additionally there is a new version of Wtfplay, which might be worth trying.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I think both JPlay and Bug head Emperor are suitable for those that like to tinker around with their hifi in pursuit of the highest possible SQ.
 
But they are not suitable for those that prefer an all round music player that has good SQ, but also good UI and library management.
 
I have tried JPlay about a year ago, but it's UI was unbelievably crude as a standalone music player. Along the lines of: Open up a DOS-like window, go to your music folder and select some files and copy&paste them into the DOS-like window. Apologies if they've moved on since then, but JPlay makes much more sense if used as a plug-in to another music app. I gave up when JRiver deliberately prevented JPlay from being allowed as a plug-in.
 
I never tried BHE because I was not prepared to spend 3 years contemplating the meaning of life in an isolated monastery in the Himalayas - just to be able understand what the BHE's creator was on about

 
Oddly, no matter which DSP settings I activated in Bug Head Emperor / Infinity Blade, I could not get it to sound different.
 
JPLAY has been available as both a standalone player (JPLAYmini) and plugin for a long time. You can activate the plugin in most players, using their interface. Now there's another way to use it, via JPLAYStreamer. (This requires using two other software programs as a "Media Server" and "Room".)
 
HQPlayer is still the only player I've used that sounded different to me. (Thanks to its DSP.)
 
Now that I have a Chord Mojo, the sound is on a completely different level than any experiments I tried with music players and cheap DACs. I can't imagine how good your DAVE sounds!

 

[Buellerich]

Chord gear is notorious for it's own internal DSP like Meridian. In my opinion the HQ player makes only sense when you apply upsampling. Why do you do that if you have a Chord instead of playing bitperfect and let your DAC do the job?

 

[Music Alchemist]

Chord gear is notorious for it's own internal DSP like Meridian. In my opinion the HQ player makes only sense when you apply upsampling. Why do you do that if you have a Chord instead of playing bitperfect and let your DAC do the job?

 
I do use bitperfect output, with foobar2000.
 
In fact, I posted previously in this thread about how I ended up preferring foobar2000 over HQPlayer even with a cheap DAC.

 

[Buellerich]

Ok, Foobar does what it is supposed to be doing but could not finally convince me as a standalone player. As control point with JPLAY streamer however it sounds great. So everyone has his own flavour....

 

[Music Alchemist]

Ok, Foobar does what it is supposed to be doing but could not finally convince me as a standalone player. As control point with JPLAY streamer however it sounds great. So everyone has his own flavour....

 
foobar2000 and JPLAYStreamer (and JPLAYmini, etc.) sound the same to me. But I am only using a single PC as source; nothing fancy just yet.

 

[Buellerich]

Try JPLAY streamer with 1hz Dac link setting,alternatively try the highest value your dac may accept (extreme settings). Choose KS and Ultrastream. Take minimserver and a control point like Upplay or Foobar with the respective component. It would be very strange if you did not hear a difference to a normal foobar standalone setup.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Try JPLAY streamer with 1hz Dac link setting,alternatively try the highest value your dac may accept (extreme settings). Choose KS and Ultrastream. Take minimserver and a control point like Upplay or Foobar with the respective component. It would be very strange if you did not hear a difference to a normal foobar standalone setup.

 
I already did all that. Tried all sorts of settings. Used Linn Kinsky and MinimServer with JPLAYStreamer and compared to foobar2000 for hours. Also compared to JPLAYmini for countless hours before that. Not even the slightest bit of difference. Like I said, the only time I heard a difference with a music player is when it applied DSP.

 

[Buellerich]

Hihi, to a certain extent I admire you sincerely for that,since you have your peace of mind that way. Maybe it is due to the DAC, which is invariant, that might be an advantage. But eventually try to replace Kinsky by Upplay...and tell about your finding.

 

[sterling1]

   
I already did all that. Tried all sorts of settings. Used Linn Kinsky and MinimServer with JPLAYStreamer and compared to foobar2000 for hours. Also compared to JPLAYmini for countless hours before that. Not even the slightest bit of difference. Like I said, the only time I heard a difference with a music player is when it applied DSP.

​I too have only heard a difference in sound between players when DSP is applied. I am like totally satisfied with iTunes. Coupled with Airport Express for wireless connection from my laptop to Home Theatre Pre/pro iTunes is sooooo convenient; plus, with ripping, burning, playlist creation, genius mix, and just about every conceivable process available for enjoying music both in and outside of the library it's no wonder why iTunes is the number one player out there.