[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif Older ones don't -Extreme Music. Since you're not gaming I wouldn't buy Creative.

the original release boards from 2005 (I may be off by a year) saw a "lesser" X-RAM solution with 2MB installed, vs the 64MB found on the "better" series (the Fatal1ty branded boards and the Elite Pro), they all do feature the technology in some form, this does include Xtreme Music

however the Xtreme Audio release was not based on EMU20k (instead using the DSP found on Audigy 2 SE and SB Live!), and does not support X-RAM, it does however implement Crystalizer (likely through software emulation, although I highly doubt the EMU20k has fixed function hardware for Crystalizer, and instead it just implements it via DSP effects, just like 99% of everything else it does)

so like I said, every X-Fi has X-RAM, and Xtreme Audio is just a rebranded nightmare (theres a reason it sold poorly)

and why wouldn't you suggest Creative if he isn't gaming? and what would you suggest in place of Creative?

Quote:

Originally Posted by quaN' /img/forum/go_quote.gif To Mr.Sarcasm - Had "Gaming" headphones for £50 which were top of the range back then and they were absolutely **** except for the comfort. Still got a gaming pad and mouse because the pad is huge and it's real nice to have a big pad and gaming mouse for precision although it's proven to be a good mouse all-around (MX518). Enough about gaming anyway

yeah, gaming accessories are usually bollocks (and I agreed with you on that in my post), the point on the mouse wasn't to flame "conventional" gaming hardware (the MX518 is a great mouse by the way,a lthough sadly, like all Logitech mice, it doesn't fit my hands), I'm meaning more like the super-hyped stuff, like those $100-$150 Razer mice, $200+ custom keyboards, and VERY overpriced mousepads (I love the big $18~ fatty mousepads, I mean like the $65 "glass anti-friction surface" things which you're supposed to lubricate and all that jazz)


as far as "gaming headphones", thats another world of marketing hype, but I do entirely understand your perspective on "gaming soundcards" now, my point is that there isn't anything inherently wrong with them though, all "gaming" means in context of an audio card is that its capable of proper H/W offload (including VIA Envy24, but no other VIA) and can do 3D processing of some sort (be it as advanced as EAX 5.0, or as simple as some Sensura/DirectSound 3D H/W acceleration)

 

[quane]

Read some reviews (comparison between Asus Xonar D1 and Creative XtremeMusic) and even though Xonar beat XtremeMusic at Gaming, XtremeMusic was victorious at music experience. As I listen to more music, I'm leaning on XtremeMusic/Ti rather than Xonar D1 or DX

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by quaN' /img/forum/go_quote.gif Read some reviews (comparison between Asus Xonar D1 and Creative XtremeMusic) and even though Xonar beat XtremeMusic at Gaming, XtremeMusic was victorious at music experience. As I listen to more music, I'm leaning on XtremeMusic/Ti rather than Xonar D1 or DX

thats somewhat surprising to read of an X-Fi bested at its own game, although not entirely impossible (without its 64MB of RAM (I'd go to 128MB given the prices in 2009, but thats another story) that DSP is really nothing insane by itself)

what grounds did they bill it as superior? subjective analysis, or some measurements?

 

[iriverdude]

Quote:

and what would you suggest in place of Creative?

Probably one of the M-Audio's. Better connectivity - seperate headphone socket, standard RCA coaxial out, slimmer drivers don't need 100MB of rubbish (even stripped down CL install is bloaty) No problems with typical CL problems. I believe M-Audio Revolution did a headoff with X-Fi, M-Audio coming ontop for sound quality.

 

[quane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich /img/forum/go_quote.gif thats somewhat surprising to read of an X-Fi bested at its own game, although not entirely impossible (without its 64MB of RAM (I'd go to 128MB given the prices in 2009, but thats another story) that DSP is really nothing insane by itself) what grounds did they bill it as superior? subjective analysis, or some measurements?

Asus Xonar D1 Review - Overclockers Club

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif Probably one of the M-Audio's. Better connectivity - seperate headphone socket, standard RCA coaxial out, slimmer drivers don't need 100MB of rubbish (even stripped down CL install is bloaty) No problems with typical CL problems. I believe M-Audio Revolution did a headoff with X-Fi, M-Audio coming ontop for sound quality.

yes but the Revolution 5.1 and 7.1 are out of production, and the only ones with the separate hp output, the Audiophile 2496 is dinky for driving hp's straight out, and anything else in their portfolio will be out of his budget

I'd like to see this review, honestly, and know which X-Fi it was compared to, as even my Audigy 2 ZS Plat can best the A2496 at analog and digital output, just curious to see what they found (I'm just curious, thats all)

Quote:

Originally Posted by quaN' /img/forum/go_quote.gif Asus Xonar D1 Review - Overclockers Club

if they really drove those straight into the K701's pictured, their entire subjective analysis is flawed as a result (as the K701's are a dreadful load for an audiocard to drive), the measurements do show the D1 pulling slightly ahead from the X-Fi measured against, which is unsurprising, the baby X-Fi squared off against the D1 (which is undoubtedly a somewhat better card)

 

[atx 6speed]

While I like M-Audio a lot (I own some of their stuff), I have heard that their drivers, while not-bloated, are not very well written or updated. This is especially true for those running 64-bit Vista. With Windows 7 looming I would go with a company that keeps updating their drivers regularly, because a great card is nothing without great drivers.

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by atx 6speed /img/forum/go_quote.gif While I like M-Audio a lot (I own some of their stuff), I have heard that their drivers, while not-bloated, are not very well written or updated. This is especially true for those running 64-bit Vista. With Windows 7 looming I would go with a company that keeps updating their drivers regularly, because a great card is nothing without great drivers.

I have to agree, while it isn't 110% their fault, its been nearly five years since Vista was released to developers, and the lack of progress is pretty disgusting in some cases (for example M-Audio)

at least with Creative and Asus you get partially working solutions and guranteed updates over time (like, in terms of a new OS, Creative had X-Fi/Audigy working with Vista within months, and full compatability within a year, M-Audio still doesn't have 100% compatability)

 

[Alydon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by quaN' /img/forum/go_quote.gif Asus Xonar D1 Review - Overclockers Club

Keep in mind the reviewer was not using a stock Xtrememusic. He's using a heavily modded one, which he explains on page 5 when he says:

"Following cotdt's guide at head-fi.org, I have upgraded the front stereo line-out's op-amp and the power capacitor, as well as bypassing the decoupling output stage, to raise the sound quality to about the highest possible."

The guide he followed can be found here if you're interested.

So, unless you've got decent soldering skills and don't mind pulling/replacing/bypassing electronic parts on the sound card you buy you won't get the same sound quality out of an Xtrememusic that he got.

If music/movie listening will be your primary use and if you're hovering between the Xtrememusic or Xonar D1/DX, I'd go the Xonar route. Can't comment on the Ti though since I've not heard it.

EDIT: Incidentally he does mention also using a homemade HP amp, tho he doesn't mention what design he used. I suspect e could drive the 701's better w/ that than straight out of the sound cards. In any case that obviously will influence the subjective sound quality he hears from each card as well.

 

[obobskivich]

I hadn't caught what mod he did there alydon, but that is a fair upgrade from the stock kit

still, he never mentions what hp's he's using (assuming K701), or what he's driving them with, but honestly, I think its fair to say his subjective analysis test is flawed on a few levels

 

[quane]

Listening Gear:

Headphones:

* AKG K 701 Reference Headphones (powered by M³ Headphone Amplifier)
* Turtle Beach Ear Force X-52 5.1 Headphones

Interconnects:

* Soundcard to amp: Custom made Van-Damme / Switchcraft / Neutrik with silver-plated OFC + OFC conductor, OFC shield
* Soundcard loop-back: an identical cable, but using a 3.5mm to 2x phono/RCA adapter

 

[leeperry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich /img/forum/go_quote.gif the primary selling point on the Ti is the RFI shield and potentially higher quality opamps/DAC hardware (I dont know this for a fact, you may wish to research it,

well the PCB isolation/THD/SNR measurements from this Japanese site(babelfish's your friend) show that the Creative cards are junk :
DOS/V POWER REPORT | Impress Japan
DOS/V POWER REPORT | Impress Japan
DOS/V POWER REPORT | Impress Japan
DOS/V POWER REPORT | Impress Japan
DOS/V POWER REPORT | Impress Japan
DOS/V POWER REPORT | Impress Japan
DOS/V POWER REPORT | Impress Japan
DOS/V POWER REPORT | Impress Japan

considering we're here, you might want an amplified headphones output while you're at it.

the 0404USB yields the best results, and second is the Audiophile USB(plus it's got KMixer-free MME drivers on XP)

 

[obobskivich]

well that entire copy pasta was a waste of time

their measurements disagree with damned near every other objective measurement for any card in that list (not just the Creative cards, but the E-MU, M-Audio, Onkyo, etc as well), in other words they're basically writing sensationalist drib and hoping people buy into it, feeling "enlightened" by seeing data that doesn't reflect the majority of soruces

and before you go off on some crusade about how all these other soruces are bought and paid for, in any academic research you're taught that if a majority of 3rd party sources agree with one another, the piece of information is closer to a fact, and if one disagrees, its likely flawed in some way

to throw some more at you (just to see how much of a troll you are), SRC is inaudible, the guy is using inexpensive hp's that don't require an amp, and the 0404 USB is MASSIVELY out of his price range (not like you care, troll)

 

[ear8dmg]

I would have thought Xonar D1 would do a fine job for the money.

In terms of pure sound quality without taking gaming into acount gaming or various DSPs etc , I'd rank the cards I've owned something like this.

Xonar D2 = Auzentech X-Fi Prelude
X-Fi Xtreme Music
Audigy 2 = Club3D Theatron DD = X-Fi Go USB

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ear8dmg /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would have thought Xonar D1 would do a fine job for the money. In terms of pure sound quality without taking gaming into acount gaming or various DSPs etc , I'd rank the cards I've owned something like this. Xonar D2 = Auzentech X-Fi Prelude X-Fi Xtreme Music Audigy 2 = Club3D Theatron DD = X-Fi Go USB

I'd probably agree with that ranking, although I'd like to point out that the improvements/changes in those steps isn't very huge (we aren't at all talking night and day here, minor steps, but also the price shifts are fairly minor (and the higher end cards usually grant you more features as well)