[Ghoostknight]

Hello,

well a little side story, i abonded Windows 2-3 years ago for "serious listening" because my raspberry pi streamer (with currently moode) sounds way better
i used linux for a while for my main pc but even linux isnt perfect because of pulseaudio and i switched back to windows (mainly because of games)

but i got to the point recently, if i wanna use my PC for multimedia purposes (watching netflix, youtube, playing games etc) in the highest audio quality possible i probably need to switch back to Linux and either use ALSA on its own (like moode audio) or try PipeWire instead of PulseAudio

from here: i prefer if you guys give your opinion on browsers for LINUX, since i think Windows has many flaws on its own for Audio (like crappy resampling)

now to my question, did one of you either try different browser subjectively and heared a difference? (i just tried firefox vs opera which is chromium based under windows and i think firefox sounds a little better)

or does someone has a idea how the browser operate objectivly? since browser, as i understand it, use their own resampling/audio core im wondering which one does work with the least resampling (which i would guess is 44,1khz since the majority of sources will probably be 44,1khz) so the browser acts just as a passtrough
maybe one browser even streams audio in the native samplerate and just resamples the second audio source (tab) to the first one? this would be actually really great imo

Once i installed Linux the upcoming days i can check this probably myself since there was a easy way to see the samplerates of the different applications if i remember right, this should be easy enough to see how the browser react with different streams/multiple sources, i would guess/fear that the browser work differently under Windows tho if someone is curious here

Best Regards

 

[Ghoostknight]

Well to get to a answer for Windows: i just checked both Firefox and Opera GX(Chromium)
the easiest thing to listen for is simply bass, firefox seems to have "way" more/deeper bass and a overall "better" sound, im not sure yet if its really the "better" sound but there is certainly a difference between the two browser

Edit: tested under Windows 11 and on youtube, both browsers had max volume and the same youtube link and i adjusted the system volume of Windows

 

[dunring]

I've run Linux Mint and really like it, and bought and sold audio equipment for years. I've tried several browsers for it with Youtube music and other sites and never noticed a difference, even with high end stuff like the Topping A90/D90. I'd go with the one that offers the most addons that you use. I like Firefox because there's some Youtube and video downloaders available for it, and haven't run into an addon that isn't available for it. Do a blind test with volume matching, several decibel meters available for phones. It's nearly impossible to judge audio any other way. Linux programmers could probably answer it best, like an audio addon that's available for different browsers. Just shooting them a question if there's any difference in sound handling between the different browsers would get the answer.

 

[Roseval]

i think Windows has many flaws on its own for Audio (like crappy resampling)

Windows audio is as good as the audio of any other OS.
However, there is a special case, if the audio is resampled and the signal comes very close to 0 dBFS (the typical loudness war recordings), there will be distortion.
You can avoid this using any media player using WASAPI/Exclusive (bypassing the Win audio completely) or use a APO with a pre-amp function to avoid hitting the 0 dBFS.
https://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Windows/SRC.htm
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nding-the-windows-audio-quality-debate.19438/

 

[Ghoostknight]

Windows audio is as good as the audio of any other OS.

nope, atleast not for me, windows always sounded worse, even with exclusive mode (qobuz client), dont ask me why tho
(tho i should say its not night and day difference, but its audible, specially on my speaker setup)

However, there is a special case, if the audio is resampled and the signal comes very close to 0 dBFS (the typical loudness war recordings), there will be distortion.

Hmm as i was understand hitting 0db isnt a problem, yes there will be digital clipping but if its in the recording its no problem and hitten 0db in windows shouldnt be different?
or is the resampling the culprit here? i read something about the windows limiter being crappy, so its adviced to run windows at 98/99 instead of 100 volume which i already do just for good measure (tho i dont hear much difference in this case, windows seem to just sound worse "overall")

You can avoid this using any media player using WASAPI/Exclusive (bypassing the Win audio completely) or use a APO with a pre-amp function to avoid hitting the 0 dBFS.

yea i know, but what you do for the browser? its not possible to run exclusive mode in this case, i wanna preferably system-wide good sound or i can keep using my raspberry pi setup with music only
EqualizerAPO is another thing.... you cant use EqualizerAPO if you wanna use exclusive mode

i know i wont be able to achieve sound quality on par with a dedicated streamer running ALSA only (so its "exclusive mode" non-resampling) but atleast i wanna get closer than my current windows setup, which is why i try linux again

well i kinda dont wanna debate right now on windows vs linux.. i will once again see (hear) it if i try linux on my main machine again
atleast from what i remembered of some tests 2-3 years ago, pulseaudio sounds in most cases worse than windows (even tweaked), alsa only sounds better than windows

--

like i said before i heared a difference in firefox vs opera gx (chromium) on windows 11, so something must be different and it was level matched, unless the browsers do something quite differently (volume was maxed out on both browser, same youtube link, windows system volume reduced to the same level)

 

[Ghoostknight]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nding-the-windows-audio-quality-debate.19438/

this thread kinda just shows how flawed windows is and its probably just scratching the surface

imo if windows has such crappy audio implementation that we need to tweak so much to get it working (atleast somewhat) "right" its probably best to avoid it anyway for any kind of serious listening atleast imo, tho im also someone who always seeks for "the best" solution, and linux is way more tweakable in this regard

i will see what linux will gain me and will also report back how browser react in linux samplerate-wise

 

[VNandor]

Firefox sounds nice and warm. Opera really shines with vocals. Chrome has a certain metallic timbre to it which I don't like. Edge sounds sharp and clean. Brave just sounds huge. Nobody cares about internet explorer but if you feel adventurous you can give it a go. I almost forgot about Safari. It has a rather exotic sound to it.

or does someone has a idea how the browser operate objectivly?

Create a HTML document, embed a wave file in it, open the document with a browser, capture the sound and export it to a file. Invert it, line it up with the original, make sure it's level matched (it should be by default so if it isn't something went wrong), add the files together, then check what's left of it. I did it with a 16bit wave file and I was left with occasional truncation errors around -96dB. I'm a little bit surprised it didn't null perfectly but it is what it is. Let me know if you need any help with any of these steps.

I think this is telling about browsers but not about the websites that you actually use for listening which can (but not necessarily will) change the sound so I recommend doing this same test with your everyday listening scenario as well.

 

[Roseval]

internet explorer

It sounds lifeless.

 

[castleofargh]

Hmm as i was understand hitting 0db isnt a problem, yes there will be digital clipping but if its in the recording its no problem and hitten 0db in windows shouldnt be different?
or is the resampling the culprit here?

Yes oversampling will often show higher max amplitude, so if the Sound engineer aligned 44.1kHz's "loudest" sample with 0dB, all those higher than full scale samples born from oversampling can end up being also rounded down to 0dB(some DAC do call 0dB minus 3 or 5 so there remains some headroom to avoid oversample clipping).
It's a game of statistics as samples are taken periodically without regard to where the higher point on the sine was. Most "true peak" readers I've seen use X8 oversampling before giving the highest amplitude found in a sample, so I'm guessing that the pros have decided it was at the very least enough for our ears.

Firefox sounds nice and warm. Opera really shines with vocals. Chrome has a certain metallic timbre to it which I don't like. Edge sounds sharp and clean. Brave just sounds huge. Nobody cares about internet explorer but if you feel adventurous you can give it a go.

Not even one like for this? Tough crowd. Here, get mine.

 

[Roseval]

its not possible to run exclusive mode in this case, i wanna preferably system-wide good sound or i can keep using my raspberry pi setup with music only
EqualizerAPO is another thing.... you cant use EqualizerAPO if you wanna use exclusive mode

It is very simple.
The distortion is caused by the CAudioLimiter.
If you use shared mode, you use the pre-amp function of Equalizer APO to avoid the limiter to kick in.

If you use WASAPI/Exclusive mode, you bypass the entire Windows audio stack including the limiter so you don't have this problem hence you don't need Equalizer APO

 

[gimmeheadroom]

this thread kinda just shows how flawed windows is and its probably just scratching the surface

imo if windows has such crappy audio implementation that we need to tweak so much to get it working (atleast somewhat) "right" its probably best to avoid it anyway for any kind of serious listening atleast imo, tho im also someone who always seeks for "the best" solution, and linux is way more tweakable in this regard

i will see what linux will gain me and will also report back how browser react in linux samplerate-wise

This is complete nonsense. ASIO was designed by Steinberg which is a major player in studio production and mastering software and hardware.

True, windows audio stack is crap, but ASIO solves that problem. If not, most of the digital music available in the world wouldn't be worth buying.

The best browser for audio is no browser. That's exactly the problem. Browsers are not for playing music and HTML is not for email.

Get a Windows app with ASIO driver support (foobar, musicbee) etc. and you get bitperfect playback. There isn't any way to improve on that.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

In JRiver for years now has an imbeded browser. You could use it to watch YT, Netflix, Amazon Prime etc. or hear music on popular sites while directing it with your Audio Setup (or whatever that is in you have configured in its Audio settings). JRiver is available in Win/Mac/Linux.

 

[Ghoostknight]

In JRiver for years now has an imbeded browser. You could use it to watch YT, Netflix, Amazon Prime etc. or hear music on popular sites while directing it with your Audio Setup (or whatever that is in you have configured in its Audio settings). JRiver is available in Win/Mac/Linux.

oh i didnt know this, maybe i should try

--

On windows firefox was the winner for me

i did switch to linux (fedora kde) now and what should i say, for me its (again) a good improvement audio quality wise, no reason to stay with windows crappy implementation if you can have linux beside privacy concerns
you can raise the resampling quality of pipewire quite easly to get a very clean resampling https://src.infinitewave.ca/?Top=Pipewire_Q14&Bot=Windows10&Spec=0100
even with resampling quality 4 of pipewire (which seems quite similar to windows resampling on infinitewave.ca) linux sounded better for some reason

i actually have not tried different browser in fedora because firefox seems to direct each audio stream directly to pipewire in the corresponding samplerate and pipewire does the rest
and im actually quite happy with firefox now i tried it again, probably the smoothest/best extension expierence i had, i was for years a vivaldi user

maybe i will compare firefox to chrome later today just for the sake of it, but atleast i hope there will be no difference on linux

 

[Ghoostknight]

so, i just tried chromium (plain chromium on linux) and it indeed sounds a little worse subjectively, there is room to argue that this doesnt make much of a difference but for me it does, beside how little some people say it may be

then i checked how samplerates are handled and chromium seems to resample itself(!) everything to 48khz while firefox plays the original samplerate (tested with 44,1khz and 96khz in the qobuz webplayer), now the question is if chromium on windows does the same thing but i kinda expect it to and this would also explain why firefox on windows sounds better since it avoids double-resampling


kinda good endresult imo, i can keep using firefox with better/smoother extension expierence, better audioquality, (for me) better layout and actually ditch google
unfortunaly there isnt much more than chromium/firefox out there (atleast nothing i would call comparable) so choices are kinda limited

but im kinda happy i started this expirement, if someone is curious i would just advice to try firefox vs chrome/chromium yourself

 

[VNandor]

Nor edge or chrome resamples on windows by themselves. Maybe the qobuz web player could force the resampling though.