[Sonic Defender]

People are conditioned to believe that the more expensive device has that extra special quality that only spending more money can buy. That is why none of the professional audio reviewers has ever agreed to do blind listening tests because they know that they will not be able to tell the differences. I am not saying don't buy the more expensive gear, absolutely if you can afford it by all means buy it and love it. Just don't close your mind to the fact that you don't need to spend that much money to arrive at audible transparency.

 

[MacedonianHero]

People are conditioned to believe that the more expensive device has that extra special quality that only spending more money can buy. That is why none of the professional audio reviewers has ever agreed to do blind listening tests because they know that they will not be able to tell the differences. I am not saying don't buy the more expensive gear, absolutely if you can afford it by all means buy it and love it. Just don't close your mind to the fact that you don't need to spend that much money to arrive at audible transparency.

So very true! That said, the Chord DAVE is the absolute best I've heard the HD800/HD800S sound (with nothing between the DAVE and headphones).

 

[cycheang]

Recently i got my HD800S and use it now with my DAP Cayin N6ii. I found the sound a bit flat even i switch to high gain. Treble is high and long listening feel fatigue. Lack of bass if i compare my DAP pair with Sony IER-Z1R.

Can you guy make some recommendation that AMP come with 4.4mm balance input ?
Can i use back my DAP and extend it to headphone AMP ? If yes, what will be the combination? At least give me some bass response .
Thanks.

 

[HulalaHifi]

The thing about listening experience is kind of personal and subjective, beside the quality of the gears, you have to find the sound that you like. That's why my speaker system always stick with Naim and Harbeth, and my headphones always stick with Sennheiser, well, from Sennheiser 600/650 to 800/800s really no looking back though, and I think I really like Hugo 2's sound after I tried and I feel that's the sound I am after, so I think I will stick with Hugo 2 for a while, no more, no less.

 

[-HaVoC-Tzu-]

No it doesn't, I'll put huge money on you not being able to tell them apart in multiple trial, blind listening tests. Any difference you are hearing is because you expect the more expensive Hugo2 to sound better and you are comparing using sighted listening tests. If you level matched and did blind listening tests, multiple trials you couldn't tell them apart.

Ok dude. Huge money, let’s see it.

 

[-HaVoC-Tzu-]

So very true! That said, the Chord DAVE is the absolute best I've heard the HD800/HD800S sound (with nothing between the DAVE and headphones).

Chord Dave + M-Scaler was by far the best I have heard as well.

 

[HulalaHifi]

Chord Dave + M-Scaler was by far the best I have heard as well.

one day, I must own Dave and M-Scaler

 

[Skeith]

Save your money, go to the audio science review forums and investigate what matters with DACs and look at the many measured devices. I have now selected my last two DACs based on the fantastic wealth of scientific measurements there and both have been affordable and fantastic sounding SMSL models. I was on the Hugo2 tour, I have owned a Mojo and various other DACs including the NAD M51 and an Audiolab model amongst others and I can tell you without a moments hesitation I would take the SMSL M200 over the Hugo2 as a DAC. The M200 is audibly transparent, massively more affordable and also features extremely well implemented Bluetooth 5. I would get some of the wonderful and affordable gear to pair with the 800S, which I owned by the way and drove with a great tube amp with fabulous tubes as well as from a great solid state amp. An amp simply needs to provide adequate, stable clean power, enough for the dynamic peaks of the load. Even $300 amps these days can more than fit that bill and the same goes for the DACs. The days of being trapped into spending thousands of dollars on amps and DACs to get what we need is long over.

And to clarify, this community also offers great information, just not objective measurements and while I say I would take the M200 over the Hugo2 as a DAC that isn't because the Hugo2 isn't a great device, it is just that as a DAC the M200 sounds every bit as good, but is so much more affordable.

Are you sure ???
Headfonics already review M200 and only give score 8 for sound quality...

https://headfonics.com/smsl-m200-review/

 

[Senndo]

430HAD!

 

[Sonic Defender]

Are you sure ???
Headfonics already review M200 and only give score 8 for sound quality...

https://headfonics.com/smsl-m200-review/

Yes, I am quite sure. Those are sighted listening reviews. If these devices were being compared blind, level matched and in multiple trials people couldn't tell the difference. Any well implemented DAC with an equally well implemented analogue stage will sound transparent to the user unless pretty substantial technical mistakes have been made, or even more problematic if the designers deliberately created some colour in the output stage. I know the actual science behind sound isn't a popular discussion topic generally in these forums but really it is something anybody who wants to create an audio system that is technically sound and affordable should engage in.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Ok dude. Huge money, let’s see it.

Obviously I was deliberately making a statement that I couldn't back up, but I will tell you this, if I did have money, I would happily travel down to meet you and conduct the blind listening tests with you. I am willing to bet that you have never conducted such a test so hopefully if that assumption is true you will at least be fair minded enough to consider that you don't actually know from experience whether or not you can hear the assumed differences under proper testing conditions.

You should consider that in this community and others there have been brave and open minded members over the years who have actually participated in proper blind listening tests and not been able to tell the differences between DACs, and these are experienced users who were curious, not with an axe to grind. Regardless, no point in me going on about such things so I will cease and desist.

The only thing that I will add is that while this community is the very best such Internet community, and one that I love being a member of, it does have a poverty of any objective measurement efforts for DACs and amps, and that is fine, head-fi is not meant to be that type of community and I get that and support that. However, if people are interested in digging into the actual science there are communities such as audio science review where the backbone of the community is objective measurement of such devices. We need all of the communities so my saying so is not to pronounce one community as better or more valid than the other. I actually think they are complimentary and work together to promote and improve the hobby for audio enthusiasts.

 

[-HaVoC-Tzu-]

Obviously I was deliberately making a statement that I couldn't back up, but I will tell you this, if I did have money, I would happily travel down to meet you and conduct the blind listening tests with you. I am willing to bet that you have never conducted such a test so hopefully if that assumption is true you will at least be fair minded enough to consider that you don't actually know from experience whether or not you can hear the assumed differences under proper testing conditions.

You should consider that in this community and others there have been brave and open minded members over the years who have actually participated in proper blind listening tests and not been able to tell the differences between DACs, and these are experienced users who were curious, not with an axe to grind. Regardless, no point in me going on about such things so I will cease and desist.

The only thing that I will add is that while this community is the very best such Internet community, and one that I love being a member of, it does have a poverty of any objective measurement efforts for DACs and amps, and that is fine, head-fi is not meant to be that type of community and I get that and support that. However, if people are interested in digging into the actual science there are communities such as audio science review where the backbone of the community is objective measurement of such devices. We need all of the communities so my saying so is not to pronounce one community as better or more valid than the other. I actually think they are complimentary and work together to promote and improve the hobby for audio enthusiasts.

The coloration, detail and stage differences is what makes it easy to know what DAC I am listening to when playing a familiar song. (I was hoping you had huge money) I have done the blind test before.

Of course Qutest and Hugo2 would be hard to tell a difference.
I bought the SU8v2 BECAUSE of the science review and XLR out, plugged it in and was disappointed. (I already had a Hugo2 when I bought the SU8v2 and had high hopes for the SU8v2)

Another fun test would be to do a large study blind test based on scientific measurements vs price.
But the study should annotate which users claim to hear the difference beforehand vs those that do not and put them in separate groups.

Whenever I hear someone say they don’t hear a difference in their various DACs, I immediately think something is wrong with their setup (or hearing but I keep that to myself), and the first thing I think of is their source/cable type.

 

[MattTCG]

People are conditioned to believe that the more expensive device has that extra special quality that only spending more money can buy. That is why none of the professional audio reviewers has ever agreed to do blind listening tests because they know that they will not be able to tell the differences. I am not saying don't buy the more expensive gear, absolutely if you can afford it by all means buy it and love it. Just don't close your mind to the fact that you don't need to spend that much money to arrive at audible transparency.

This is a gross overstatement. While there is admittedly a grain of truth on some level, the statement is just too general to be usefully truthful.

The ability to hear "and appreciate" the differences in gear will come down to the individual, that person's experience and their hearing ability or inability (and many other factors to be honest).

Take a look at the blind test from "Big Sound" at Innerfidelity from a few years back. Many could not reliably detect the differences in amps but some could. And I believe that one guy was dead accurate. Obviously people who are in the field of sound mastering and audio will be better than average at such a test. And people who are around the field such as musicians and vocalists will have a keen ear for sonic differences and would also do very well in a proper blind test. But that doesn't mean that your average hobbyist can't be just as accurate.

Often it does time some time to fully evaluate and appreciate an amp's (or DACS) abilities. Listening to a wide array of musical genres is important. Personally, I know that I can't make good judgements when I'm having sinus issues or I've had a few days in a row with little sleep. So I always reserve judgement in those situations.

Sorry. I don't mean to come across as argumentative. It's that I just don't like broad sweeping generalizations.

 

[-HaVoC-Tzu-]

430HAD!

Would love to try the 430HA!
None of my audio stores ever have it in stock so never got the chance to demo it.
Any idea how I can demo one?

 

[Sonic Defender]

This is a gross overstatement. While there is admittedly a grain of truth on some level, the statement is just too general to be usefully truthful.

The ability to hear "and appreciate" the differences in gear will come down to the individual, that person's experience and their hearing ability or inability (and many other factors to be honest).

Take a look at the blind test from "Big Sound" at Innerfidelity from a few years back. Many could not reliably detect the differences in amps but some could. And I believe that one guy was dead accurate. Obviously people who are in the field of sound mastering and audio will be better than average at such a test. And people who are around the field such as musicians and vocalists will have a keen ear for sonic differences and would also do very well in a proper blind test. But that doesn't mean that your average hobbyist can't be just as accurate.

Often it does time some time to fully evaluate and appreciate an amp's (or DACS) abilities. Listening to a wide array of musical genres is important. Personally, I know that I can't make good judgements when I'm having sinus issues or I've had a few days in a row with little sleep. So I always reserve judgement in those situations.

Sorry. I don't mean to come across as argumentative. It's that I just don't like broad sweeping generalizations.

No offense taken, this is a passionate hobby and we all have opinions. I stand by my statements though and would be happy to be present and conduct proper listening tests. You can have poorly designed blind listening tests and what many people miss is the need to do multiple trials. You need at least 10 trials per subject and of those trials the detection/discrimination rate would have to be at least 90%. Anyway, let's not belabour the point, but I do respect your experience and candor. Cheers.