[Malcyg]

No offense taken, this is a passionate hobby and we all have opinions. I stand by my statements though and would be happy to be present and conduct proper listening tests. You can have poorly designed blind listening tests and what many people miss is the need to do multiple trials. You need at least 10 trials per subject and of those trials the detection/discrimination rate would have to be at least 90%. Anyway, let's not belabour the point, but I do respect your experience and candor. Cheers.

I still remember the days when people were absolutely adamant that MP3 was all you needed and that you couldn’t hear the difference between MP3 and FLAC and that Hi Res files were just a blatant rip off preying on people’s weakness’s.

Your intentions are good, but there are differences which can be clearly heard. The key point is, I think, whether the individual can hear those differences, which one
they prefer and whether the difference is worth whatever price differential there is.

I have a Mojo, Hugo and BluDave. All DAC’s from the same designer and they are very easy to differentiate, I simply cannot see how anybody could fail to tell them apart. However, per my point above, if you can’t tell the difference, then rejoice, buy Mojo and sit back and enjoy the music whilst contemplating what you can buy with the money that you have just saved.

 

[Sonic Defender]

I stand by my statements and remain no less confident in their veracity as presented. I know that those who only believe in sighted listening, subjective impressions will never agree, and that is fine. As was just said to me if you can't hear the difference go and enjoy the money saved, I say in response, and respectfully so, if you don't want to test assumptions and you can afford to buy very expensive gear, enjoy the piece of mind that you have just purchased.

 

[Malcyg]

I stand by my statements and remain no less confident in their veracity as presented. I know that those who only believe in sighted listening, subjective impressions will never agree, and that is fine. As was just said to me if you can't hear the difference go and enjoy the money saved, I say in response, and respectfully so, if you don't want to test assumptions and you can afford to buy very expensive gear, enjoy the piece of mind that you have just purchased.

Due to adamant claims about Hires files being a rip off many years ago, I was very reluctant to buy any. However, I could clearly hear a difference between FLAC and MP3 and so I bought a HiRes album and used the ABX double blind testing tool to compare with FLAC. I got 24 out of 25 correct and the only reason that I got one wrong was because my wife interrupted me to ask me a question which effectively invalidated that test so I’ll claim 24/24.

Explain that one to me. Can you hear the difference yourself?

 

[-HaVoC-Tzu-]

I stand by my statements and remain no less confident in their veracity as presented. I know that those who only believe in sighted listening, subjective impressions will never agree, and that is fine. As was just said to me if you can't hear the difference go and enjoy the money saved, I say in response, and respectfully so, if you don't want to test assumptions and you can afford to buy very expensive gear, enjoy the piece of mind that you have just purchased.

money talks, show me the money.

I still remember the days when people were absolutely adamant that MP3 was all you needed and that you couldn’t hear the difference between MP3 and FLAC and that Hi Res files were just a blatant rip off preying on people’s weakness’s.

Your intentions are good, but there are differences which can be clearly heard. The key point is, I think, whether the individual can hear those differences, which one
they prefer and whether the difference is worth whatever price differential there is.

I have a Mojo, Hugo and BluDave. All DAC’s from the same designer and they are very easy to differentiate, I simply cannot see how anybody could fail to tell them apart. However, per my point above, if you can’t tell the difference, then rejoice, buy Mojo and sit back and enjoy the music whilst contemplating what you can buy with the money that you have just saved.

The Mojo stands out like a sore V-shaped thumb I bet

 

[MacedonianHero]

Chord Dave + M-Scaler was by far the best I have heard as well.

Actually I have heard the M-Scaler...I prefer the DAVE alone. The M-Scaler added too much "digititus" to the wonderful analog sound of the DAVE.

 

[-HaVoC-Tzu-]

Actually I have heard the M-Scaler...I prefer the DAVE alone. The M-Scaler added too much "digititus" to the wonderful analog sound of the DAVE.

Haven’t heard the DAVE without the m-scaler, only with it on electrostats....mind blown.

 

[Senndo]

Deleted.

 

[Senndo]

No offense taken, this is a passionate hobby and we all have opinions. I stand by my statements though and would be happy to be present and conduct proper listening tests. You can have poorly designed blind listening tests and what many people miss is the need to do multiple trials. You need at least 10 trials per subject and of those trials the detection/discrimination rate would have to be at least 90%. Anyway, let's not belabour the point, but I do respect your experience and candor. Cheers.

I have listened to many different DACs in controlled conditions. Some are similar to one another, others are so VASTLY different that no one with functioning hearing could fail to tell the difference.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Haven’t heard the DAVE without the m-scaler, only with it on electrostats....mind blown.

The digititus isn't in absolute terms, but only in comparative terms to the DAVE alone; thus my preference.

 

[HulalaHifi]

no offence, not sure what we are debating here, did anyone here actually say they can't hear the sound difference between a high-end DAC and a low-end DAC?

 

[-HaVoC-Tzu-]

Yes, someone did say that.
I’ve heard this a few times from certain people.
its very possible that some people are more sensitive to the changes than others, or just less experienced.
But making a statement that no one else can hear the difference is just wrong.

 

[Malcyg]

Actually I have heard the M-Scaler...I prefer the DAVE alone. The M-Scaler added too much "digititus" to the wonderful analog sound of the DAVE.

Can you expand upon what you mean by Digitus? I looked it up but I don’t think this is what you are alluding to.

Definition of digitus. : any of various small processes on insects especially : the claw-bearing terminal segment of the tarsus

 

[Sonic Defender]

no offence, not sure what we are debating here, did anyone here actually say they can't hear the sound difference between a high-end DAC and a low-end DAC?

Assuming that the low end DAC was designed correctly and had distortion products below the level of audibility, absolutely. At one time I had the Mojo, NAD M51 and the iFi iOne all at the same time. Tried to hear any difference that was audible using great headphones and speakers and I couldn't hear anything different, at least not enough so that I could be even remotely confident. Sold the two more expensive DACs and kept the low end iFi DAC. I ended up moving into the SMSL SU-8 V2 and now the M200. I have no doubt that in blind listening, multiple trials I couldn't reliably hear differences between DACs. Again, assuming that the DAC designer is not artificially colouring the sound via the analogue output stage, which should never be done.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Due to adamant claims about Hires files being a rip off many years ago, I was very reluctant to buy any. However, I could clearly hear a difference between FLAC and MP3 and so I bought a HiRes album and used the ABX double blind testing tool to compare with FLAC. I got 24 out of 25 correct and the only reason that I got one wrong was because my wife interrupted me to ask me a question which effectively invalidated that test so I’ll claim 24/24.

Explain that one to me. Can you hear the difference yourself?

There are several things that could have invalidated the testing procedure. Feel free to PM me the details of the testing procedure. One thing that jumps out as a very likely possibility is that different pressings of albums exist, in fact it is extremely common. I have even heard that in some cases a high resolution album will be final mixed down to be a little louder than the original. Louder sounds better unless it is distorted so if you were not comparing the exact pressings there could have been inherent differences in the source material. Careful attention to level matching is required as evidence suggests that we are capable of detecting as little as a .5dB difference in signals.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Anyway, time to get out of the thread as it is going OT. My original post to the OP stands, and as somebody who has owned a well driven 800S I figure my input was appropriate. Again to the OP, do not feel that you need to spend big money on a DAC and amp. There is modestly priced gear out there that is technically very competent and capable enough to render your music in an audibly transparent manner. Same can be said for very expensive gear, so do what you feel is right, but if you prefer to keep the budget down try to keep an open mind and consider that price does not always dictate quality of sound reproduction. Sometimes it does, but not always. Enjoy the thread.