[Ricey20]

Ah I was wondering if anyone did the Zapfilter along with other mods like caps and opamps or what-not. Dont even know how many mods there are for the Zhaolu, everytime I think i've read a thread with em all another thread lists more mods or something

 

[Herandu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChilledoutUK /img/forum/go_quote.gif In the specs for the new pcm dacs like the pcm1794

I downloaded the TI datasheet for the PCM1794, but it doesn't mention anything about it sounding better than the PCM1716. Perhaps you can cut & paste the passages in the datasheet specs where you read the information?

 

[Herandu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricey20 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ah I was wondering if anyone did the Zapfilter along with other mods like caps and opamps or what-not. Dont even know how many mods there are for the Zhaolu, everytime I think i've read a thread with em all another thread lists more mods or something

The Zhaolu uses one of the PM179X series DAC chip. According to at least one comment it is supposed to be a good chip. Why all the need to modify, and at great expense, a Zhaolu when you can buy something better sounding straight out of the box? I don't quite understand why anyone would spend their time getting something of little sonic quality, and then shell out good money to turn it into something half decent. Has the manufacturer ever considered making a decent DAC from the outset?

 

[jholtz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herandu /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Zhaolu uses one of the PM179X series DAC chip. According to at least one comment it is supposed to be a good chip. Why all the need to modify, and at great expense, a Zhaolu when you can buy something better sounding straight out of the box? I don't quite understand why anyone would spend their time getting something of little sonic quality, and then shell out good money to turn it into something half decent. Has the manufacturer ever considered making a decent DAC from the outset?

I belive you are spreading a little misinformation. The Zhaolu through versions 2.5 use either a CS4398 (flagship DAC) or a AD1852 depending on whether you buy the C or the A versions. The new 3.0 versions only use the CS4398, I believe.

To clarify, the BB 179+ series DAC's are the successor's to the superb BB 1704. Not all DAC's are created equal. Each company will have "economy" and flagship DAC's in their line up to accomodate manufactures needs whether they be, high end or low end. The 1716 is quite old technology and is a budget DAC along with newer BB 1738's (Pioneer Elite) and BB 1748's (Squeezebox). All the drum beating in the world won't change that.

It doesn't mean that an economy DAC won't sound good but it'll simply not offer the sound quality of the top of the line assuming proper implementation. Actually, implementation is critically important. FWIW, the economy DAC's cost $1.50 - $3.00 each in small quantities. Not exactly budget busting prices.

I have a Zapfiltered Zhaolu 2.5C that I absolutly love. Ori's 2.5A version is also superb based on the many, many satisfied customers. Both of these will compete with expensive DAC's due to the refined discrete analog output stage.

If you'd simply state the 7510 is a great entry level DAC and leave it at that, people would get off your rear and you'd have some credibility. Your buddy would also sell more.

Jim

 

[donthuang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jholtz /img/forum/go_quote.gif To clarify, the BB 179+ series DAC's are the successor's to the superb BB 1704. Not all DAC's are created equal. Each company will have "economy" and flagship DAC's in their line up to accomodate manufactures needs whether they be, high end or low end. The 1716 is quite old technology and is a budget DAC along with newer BB 1738's (Pioneer Elite) and BB 1748's (Squeezebox). All the drum beating in the world won't change that. Jim

Quite old technology DAC chips

Stereophile: Naim CD555 CD player

Stereophile: Zanden 5000 Mk.IV/Signature D/A converter & 2000 Premium CD transport

 

[Herandu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jholtz /img/forum/go_quote.gif It doesn't mean that an economy DAC won't sound good but it'll simply not offer the sound quality of the top of the line assuming proper implementation. Actually, implementation is critically important. FWIW, the economy DAC's cost $1.50 - $3.00 each in small quantities. Not exactly budget busting prices. I have a Zapfiltered Zhaolu 2.5C that I absolutly love. Ori's 2.5A version is also superb based on the many, many satisfied customers. Both of these will compete with expensive DAC's due to the refined discrete analog output stage. If you'd simply state the 7510 is a great entry level DAC and leave it at that, people would get off your rear and you'd have some credibility. Your buddy would also sell more. Jim

Are we discussing price of the parts, how long ago they were designed, or quality of the sound? If price dictates sound quality, then product designers can all raise their hands to such a simple solution: use expensive parts and bump the price up if you want to design a better product. Unfortunately the real world is not like that, as the Goldmund v. Pioneer incident has shown.
It is like saying also that vinyl and analogue TV is old technology, and inferior to CD and digital TV.

Taking the Beresford v Zhaolu debate one step further with respect to modding: if the TC-7510 could be improved any further through modding by 3rd party home brewers, I am sure there would have been people selling that service. If the Zhaolu was that good as the Beresford, there wouldn't be a need for people to spend, in some cases more than the DAC, just to get the Zhaolu to sound half decent. To say that the then modded Zhaolu sounds better than the Beresford is reallu clinging at straws in order to justify the outlay in getting it to finally do what it is supposed to. You only have to hang around forums where digital engineers discuss repair problems with the Zhaolu to know how much of a barge pole approach it needs. I can't think of any other DAC in the history of DACs that is embedded with so many manufacturing problems. Not a good starting point to talk up it alleged potentials.

 

[fault151]

Where can you buy a zhaolu from?

 

[fault151]

I have a beresford and i have to say, the sound is impressive. I think all this talk about poor quality components and the ability to stick a couple of 'upgrades' in the zhaolu is a laod of crap. Lets face it you can't stick a turbo in to a 1litre car engine and call it a besat can you!!! The same principle must apply to the zhaolu. Id be very keen on hearing the zhaolu. I cant obviously comment on its sound as iv never heard it. I think theres a lot of people going on just the components in the beresford without ever hearing it. Which is a bit daft really!

Just out of interest, which is the supposedly better dac in the zhaolu range? the d2 or d3?

 

[utep10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herandu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why all the need to modify, and at great expense, a Zhaolu when you can buy something better sounding straight out of the box? I don't quite understand why anyone would spend their time getting something of little sonic quality, and then shell out good money to turn it into something half decent. Has the manufacturer ever considered making a decent DAC from the outset?

Well, I for one, was able to hear before hand, the performance improvement of the Oritek mods to the Zhaolu and decided it was worth the money. Better then half decent from first hand experience. I liked it better then any other DAC that I have heard in the same price point.

The Beresford I have not heard. I have not felt the need to hear one as there seems to be just one voice stating it's virtues. The posts from people who have heard both stock Beresford and stock Zhaolu state that they are of similar performance but maybe a different flavor. I know someone who would modify and support the Zhaolu. I don't know anyone who does this for the Beresford. I have yet to read a post stating that a stock Beresford comes close to a OMZ Zhaolu or Zap-filtered Zhaolu.
This is why I shelled out good money for something half decent.
I'm just an idiot with money I guess

.

 

[utep10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fault151 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a beresford and i have to say, the sound is impressive. I think all this talk about poor quality components and the ability to stick a couple of 'upgrades' in the zhaolu is a laod of crap. Lets face it you can't stick a turbo in to a 1litre car engine and call it a besat can you!!! The same principle must apply to the zhaolu. Id be very keen on hearing the zhaolu. I cant obviously comment on its sound as iv never heard it. I think theres a lot of people going on just the components in the beresford without ever hearing it. Which is a bit daft really!

The way I have been reading it, is that the stock Beresford and Zhaolu are similar. I don't get the feeling that the Beresford is getting crapped on. Be glad your happy with what you have. Most people are not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fault151 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just out of interest, which is the supposedly better dac in the zhaolu range? the d2 or d3?

Uh, what are you doing here? Do go there, it will only diminish your savings account

.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fault151 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a beresford and i have to say, the sound is impressive. I think all this talk about poor quality components and the ability to stick a couple of 'upgrades' in the zhaolu is a laod of crap. Lets face it you can't stick a turbo in to a 1litre car engine and call it a besat can you!!! The same principle must apply to the zhaolu. Id be very keen on hearing the zhaolu. I cant obviously comment on its sound as iv never heard it. I think theres a lot of people going on just the components in the beresford without ever hearing it. Which is a bit daft really! Just out of interest, which is the supposedly better dac in the zhaolu range? the d2 or d3?

Your same principal argument is quite flawed ....

The zap filter completely replaces the stock op amp output stage in dacs or cd players with a discrete, class A transistor output stage with its own power supply. The upgrade is more like replacing the engine, transmission and suspension. The difference is night and day.

One of the biggest problems with most digital is the lack of attention to the analog side of the conversion. If you put in a cheap op amp output stage with the best digital conversion the results will be lacking. The zap filter and Ori's discrete output fully address the analog side and allow the digital section to perform up to its true potential.

 

[Ori]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herandu /img/forum/go_quote.gif You only have to hang around forums where digital engineers discuss repair problems with the Zhaolu to know how much of a barge pole approach it needs. I can't think of any other DAC in the history of DACs that is embedded with so many manufacturing problems.

I am working on more Zhaolu units than probably anyone, so I can reliably state beyond the shadow of a doubt that you are simply spreading lies.

This practice of yours is ridiculous and despicable!

 

[d-cee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herandu /img/forum/go_quote.gif You only have to hang around forums where digital engineers discuss repair problems with the Zhaolu to know how much of a barge pole approach it needs. I can't think of any other DAC in the history of DACs that is embedded with so many manufacturing problems. Not a good starting point to talk up it alleged potentials.

I didn't realise there was a forum that "digital engineers discuss repair problems with the Zhaolu"

I mean sure it's a popular DAC but didn't know it was THAT popular. I'd be interested in seeing such a forum =)

Care to share the link?

 

[donthuang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by d-cee /img/forum/go_quote.gif I mean sure it's a popular DAC but didn't know it was THAT popular. I'd be interested in seeing such a forum =) Care to share the link?

Zhaolu is more popular in Head-fi than native chiese forums like erji.net
or headphoneclub.com, really strangely didnt it?

I dont think thoese Chinese lack the know-how to mod and Zhaolu DAC's price in china is more cheap than US, really strangely.

In fact, the COMPANY "Zhaolu" is not a digital tech base,but speaker

although it's most famous products is "Zhaolu 2.5".

and you guys know Zhaolu 2.5 mod is hot in head-fi,
but who cares Zhaolu D3? really strangely.

 

[spacemanspliff]

Herandu, give it up. Go get laid or go bungy jumping. Something more exciting than banging on a dead horse.