Benchmark DAC1's XLR driving headphones--great results
Dec 13, 2005 at 6:47 PM Post #106 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer
No, the XLR's only have the distortion they speak of driving headphones, because of the they the impedances interact. The highest impedance headphones have an impedance of 600ohms, whereas most amps have AT LEAST 10,000ohms of input impedance. The lower the impedance of a circuit, the harder it is to drive, and hence the higher the distortion will be. Amps are designed to avoid this problem by having a very high impedance, whereas headphones cannot be.


Got it -- thanks for the explanation. Anyway, I'm happy with the "Iron_Dreamer mod" for now! Is this distortion audible in your opinion? Here I am thinking it sounds good ...
600smile.gif
 
Dec 13, 2005 at 7:48 PM Post #107 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by OracleGuy
Got it -- thanks for the explanation. Anyway, I'm happy with the "Iron_Dreamer mod" for now! Is this distortion audible in your opinion? Here I am thinking it sounds good ...
600smile.gif



I never heard an overt distortion, though perhaps by comparsion with a 650XLR/DAC1/balanced amp rig, more detail would be revealed that the 650XLR/DAC1 combo on its own masks via small amounts of impedance-mismatch-induced distortion. When I had the 650's, I thought the XLR mod was the best-sounding way of using them with the DAC1, and I was going to have my Zu reterminated for such use, until I decided to try the SA5000
evil_smiley.gif
 
Dec 14, 2005 at 1:59 AM Post #108 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer
When I had the 650's, I thought the XLR mod was the best-sounding way of using them with the DAC1, and I was going to have my Zu reterminated for such use, until I decided to try the SA5000
evil_smiley.gif



Are you using your SA5K's with the DAC-1's head-amp? You prefer this to the 650+XLR?
 
Dec 14, 2005 at 2:13 AM Post #109 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by OracleGuy
Are you using your SA5K's with the DAC-1's head-amp? You prefer this to the 650+XLR?


Well I only had the stock cable balanced, or the Zu unbalanced from the DAC1 headamp, but both were no contest compared to the SA5K for me. And yes, for the last 8 months I've been using it almost exclusively with the DAC1 headamp. While the SA5K's had less bass, it was higher quality bass, and the detail exhibited across the spectrum, as well as the very tight imaging, not to mention the comfort, are what made it very easy to sell my 650s.
 
Dec 14, 2005 at 4:16 PM Post #110 of 123
Sorry to start some controversy... I just wanted to post what the Benchmark guys told me. Irondreamer, I'm really anxious to try the XLR--> Senn amping. I just bought some cables, and I can't wait to hear it!!!!
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Dec 14, 2005 at 4:41 PM Post #111 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by gradofan
Sorry to start some controversy... I just wanted to post what the Benchmark guys told me. Irondreamer, I'm really anxious to try the XLR--> Senn amping. I just bought some cables, and I can't wait to hear it!!!!
smily_headphones1.gif



Don't worry about it, I wouldn't even call it "controversy." The Benchmark folks are correct from a technical point of view, but that POV fails to consider how sensative the HD580/600/650 are to being driven balanced, which ends up overcoming the losses due to the higher output impedance.
 
Dec 15, 2005 at 5:44 AM Post #113 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer
Well I only had the stock cable balanced, or the Zu unbalanced from the DAC1 headamp, but both were no contest compared to the SA5K for me. And yes, for the last 8 months I've been using it almost exclusively with the DAC1 headamp. While the SA5K's had less bass, it was higher quality bass, and the detail exhibited across the spectrum, as well as the very tight imaging, not to mention the comfort, are what made it very easy to sell my 650s.


Wow. In that case, I have to try the SA5Ks. I find the 650s super comfortable, so the SA5Ks must be really cushy. From what I've read about the Sonys, I figured they wouldn't be sonically a good match for for the DAC-1. Considering the DAC-1's headamp is supposed to be "average", have you tried a better amp with your setup?
 
Dec 15, 2005 at 6:14 AM Post #114 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by OracleGuy
Wow. In that case, I have to try the SA5Ks. I find the 650s super comfortable, so the SA5Ks must be really cushy. From what I've read about the Sonys, I figured they wouldn't be sonically a good match for for the DAC-1. Considering the DAC-1's headamp is supposed to be "average", have you tried a better amp with your setup?


It's not that the SA5K is cushy in the Senn/Beyer velour tradition, it is just that it is very light and distributes its weight very well, so there is little sensation that it is being worn, whereas I am always aware of the Senns due to their weight/pressure.

People who say the DAC1 and SA5K wouldn't go well together are probably of the sort that find neither to be neutral sounding, whereas I find both to be, so they go together quite well. It is a combo though for one who wants very detailed, neutral, revealing, ruthless sound, which is not something that appeals to everyone. Considering the love/hate nature of the SA5K's, I'd say they're certainly worth trying.

I've not had the chance to try any "better" amps outside of meet conditions, in which I found few, if any improvements, though I will soon have a Dynahi, so we'll really see just how "average" the DAC1's headphone amp is.
 
Dec 16, 2005 at 4:34 AM Post #115 of 123
I agree that the 650s do feel a bit heavy -- though it hadn't bothered me until you just mentioned it!
600smile.gif
They're absolute luxury compared to my ear-squashing 497s though.

I will be interested to hear how much of an improvement you see with your new Dynahi. Not a balanced Dynahi though, right?
 
Dec 16, 2005 at 4:34 AM Post #116 of 123
Curse these double posts!
 
Dec 16, 2005 at 4:34 AM Post #117 of 123
Ditto!
 
Dec 16, 2005 at 4:46 AM Post #118 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by OracleGuy
I agree that the 650s do feel a bit heavy -- though it hadn't bothered me until you just mentioned it!
600smile.gif
They're absolute luxury compared to my ear-squashing 497s though.

I will be interested to hear how much of an improvement you see with your new Dynahi. Not a balanced Dynahi though, right?


Nope, just a "regular" Dynahi w/DACT. Just waiting for the new transformer to come in, and it'll be set.
 
Mar 26, 2007 at 8:18 PM Post #119 of 123
This thread sucked me in and I'm so sorry to see it kinda died off back in 2005. But it's still so on point I figured I'd go ahead and pose this question anyway: in the last year and a half has there been any more accumulated wisdom and experience in driving Senn HD650s balanced out of the balanced XLR out from the DAC1 or (most interesting to me) the new DAC1 USB? I just ordered a DAC1 USB and had previously ordered a HeadRoom Balanced Desktop amp to mate with it for getting true balanced sound out of my HD650s. But I am absolutely thrilled with the idea of being able to bypass a separate balanced amp altogether and simply connect the balanced 650s to the balanced XLR out of the DAC1 USB.

It sounded from this thread like there were some empirical improvements from doing this, but that there was also likely significant loss to distortion as well. It also sounded (I am not technical) like the main impediment (no pun intended) was that the XLR balanced output of the DAC1 is intended to power extremely high -- multi-thousand ohm -- impedance items like speakers and amplifiers, and not the lowly 300 ohm HD650s. After a year and a half is that still truth? And if so, is there a simple, perhaps novel, way to tackle this problem by somehow artificially introducing large amounts of impedance between the DAC1 and the HD650s, with some kind of resistor (I'm pretty sure that's not the technically correct term, but you get the idea). Can I trick high current balanced outputs into thinking my Sennheisers are very high impedance?

Or for that matter any other workarounds? I'm firmly committed to avoiding the $1000+ cost of a HeadRoom Balanced Desktop amp if I can at all help it. Thanks!
 
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