Benchmark DAC1 now available with USB
May 9, 2007 at 9:23 PM Post #436 of 3,058
I am interested in a high end Apple Lossless MacPro computer to DAC to headphone amp to headphone setup with eventual use as a source for a high end two channel sound room setup with Wilson speakers and tube amps.

There are four DACS that I am interested in regardless of price point.

1. Personus Central Station
2. Benchmark DAC 1 w/ or w/o USP
3. Lavry da10
4. Slim Devices Transporter

I want to have the ability to use the computer via Toslink or Ethernet or Airport to get the highest and most stable output. Right now I have balanced AKG 701 and soon the Grado Statements. Can I use two tube amps such as the Doge 6210 for balanced tube headphone listening?

How can this type of setup be achieved and what cables, software and settings on the Mac using itunes is needed?

Do I need an external hard drive to store the applelossless files and how much RAM in the MAC is needed to get optimal buffering for playing entire albums/redbook CD data copies?

I was also thinking of buying the OPO DigitalDV-970HD to be used as a transport for playing CD and SACD and feeding the digital output to one of the above DACS.

My understanding is that the Transporter is the only one without built-in headphone amps but is capable of using its wireless interface to receive music from multiple computers on a LAN.

Which DAC would give the best and most reliable SQ using the computer as the primary music source?
 
May 10, 2007 at 12:55 AM Post #437 of 3,058
just finished reading the thread.
easily the most informative reading on the subject of computer based audio i ever came across. thanks to Benchmark folks for time and effort. I bookmarked the wiki pages since i am likely to visit them frequently
cool.gif
 
May 10, 2007 at 2:04 AM Post #438 of 3,058
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan the man /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I am interested in a high end Apple Lossless MacPro computer ...


Could you start a new thread and replace your post here with a "."? This isn't really the place to start into these questions. I'd be happy to reply to the thread too, since I'm a Mac ALAC user with a DAC1
wink.gif
 
May 10, 2007 at 12:46 PM Post #439 of 3,058
Product suggestion for Benchmark:

Make a version of the DAC1 with the XLR outputs optimized for balanced headphones. I imagine the form factor of the DAC1 could stay as is.

I'm not a betting man, but if I were, I'd say that this product would be a huge hit with this crowd... I imagine that many could forego the XRL line outs...and use the RCAs for non-headphone listening.

I, for one, would buy this product tomorrow. I agree with others here who have said 2007 is the year of balanced headphones...
 
May 10, 2007 at 1:27 PM Post #440 of 3,058
Quote:

Originally Posted by gregeas /img/forum/go_quote.gif
First, the Wiki entry for setting up iTunes for XP states that "Word-lengths of longer then 16-bit are truncated to 16-bit, rather then being dithered.
Truncation will cause severe distortion." Does this mean that iTunes should be avoided in preference of another playback program? If so, which is optimum for XP? I have Jriver Media Center installed, but it doesn't look like this has been tested by Benchmark.



iTunes can play 16-bit audio perfectly (bit-transparently) if the volume control is kept at 100%, and all DSP options are disabled (such as 'Sound Enhancer').

If you want to control the volume through software, it is recommended to use the Windows Volume Control Mixer (the built-in, system-wide volume control).

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregeas /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Second, and this may be stupid, but does the BNC cable twist into place onto the jack? This is how BNCs work for video, but I can't get my new cable twist into place, and I don't want to force things.


The BNC cable should be able to twist into place. I assume you are using an actual BNC connector, not a cable-TV-style coax connector, or a TNC (threaded) connector. The BNC connector will have a little slot that fits over the stud on outside of the jack. After it slips into place, twisting it clockwise should guide the stud along the slot to lock the connector in place. As Lord Chaos said, try applying some slight pressure along its axis if needed.

Let me know if it is working for you. There is a possibility of a mis-machined jack, although we haven't seen that happen yet, to my knowledge.

Thanks,
Elias
 
May 10, 2007 at 1:46 PM Post #441 of 3,058
Quote:

Originally Posted by gregeas /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Product suggestion for Benchmark:

Make a version of the DAC1 with the XLR outputs optimized for balanced headphones. I imagine the form factor of the DAC1 could stay as is.

I'm not a betting man, but if I were, I'd say that this product would be a huge hit with this crowd... I imagine that many could forego the XRL line outs...and use the RCAs for non-headphone listening.

I, for one, would buy this product tomorrow. I agree with others here who have said 2007 is the year of balanced headphones...



Gregeas,

We appreciate suggestions and recommendations, and I will share it with the product development team.

We have looked into the balanced headphone technology, and have engaged in discussions with other folks about it (see the following thread):

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...howtopic=53801

I agree that a DAC1 with balanced headphone outputs would be a good seller. However, if I can be honest, we aren't so sure that a balanced headphone configuration provides any performance advantages whatsoever. As much as we love to see new advancements in technology, no one has been able to articulate how balanced headphones provide a viable advantage. We are very open to be persuaded otherwise, but so far, we have not found any convincing explanations. If you know of any publications that may assist our research, please let us know.

We may eventually build a test circuit to measure and listen to the differences....or perhaps purchase a balanced headphone amp from another company for the same purposes.

Thanks,
Elias
 
May 10, 2007 at 1:52 PM Post #442 of 3,058
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan the man /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I am interested in a high end Apple Lossless MacPro computer ...


Dan,

I see you have a lot to consider here. I could discuss this over the telephone if you were interested, but I don't think this thread can handle that much of a diversion. If this thread were Jenga, I'd be scared to breath next to it.
basshead.gif


Thanks,
Elias
 
May 10, 2007 at 2:32 PM Post #443 of 3,058
Quote:

Originally Posted by EliasGwinn /img/forum/go_quote.gif
iTunes can play 16-bit audio perfectly (bit-transparently) if the volume control is kept at 100%, and all DSP options are disabled (such as 'Sound Enhancer').

...

Let me know if it is working for you. There is a possibility of a mis-machined jack, although we haven't seen that happen yet, to my knowledge.



Thanks for the info. Just to confirm, I do leave the bit depth set to 24 bits on iTunes, correct? (This is what the wiki advises.) So the 24-bit truncation in iTunes only has adverse effects on native 24-bit audio, such as a high-res master recording, right?

As for the BNC, I think the terminations on the cable are to blame. They slip over the pins on the jack, but I have a tough time twisting them into place. I'll email the cable manufacturer to see if he has any ideas.

Regarding balanced headphones, I should state that I've never heard them. But judging from the legions of fans here, it's hard the imagine that the balanced improvement is a purely psycho-acoustic effect.
 
May 10, 2007 at 5:29 PM Post #445 of 3,058
Quote:

Originally Posted by EliasGwinn /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If this thread were Jenga, I'd be scared to breath next to it.
basshead.gif



My co-workers are wondering why I'm laughing in my office...
smily_headphones1.gif


And Elias, I have a question for you. I've checked my DAC1 USB and the jumpers are in place for the headphone output gain reduction. I still can only get to the fourth or fifth detent with the volume control when using my E500s. Is there a good way to control the volume in an Apple Powerbook/Itunes system?
 
May 10, 2007 at 9:19 PM Post #446 of 3,058
hi mr gwinn,

i am still having a litle issue with the krell. to get the dac1's output to be as loud as the sony cd players output i have to run the dac'1 at 5.66 volts. at 5.66 volts there is a small amount of distortion present in the tweeters. the sony is only putting out 4.63 volts. i measured them both. i don't understand this. how is this possible? shouldn't the same voltage from two diferent products into the same input cause the same db reading at the same distance? if i have to i could just back off on the volume. not a big problem. i would wish you could explain this though.

also i was hoping you would comment on this. some people say the dac1's headphone amp is just an "add on" and it was just put there as an extra item. they say it is not so good sounding but it was not intended to be. i think it sounds worth $300 by itself. i know you sell it for about that by itself. i think people that do not like it simply are presenting the usual subjective opinions. it may not be everyones favorite but i certainly do not find it to be unworthy.

i assume benchmark intended for the headphone amp to sound the best it could with in reason, and to compete with other comparably priced amps. is that correct?

thanks,
music_man
 
May 11, 2007 at 12:07 AM Post #447 of 3,058
The headphone amps in my DAC1s don't sound at all like add-ons. I'm delighted with them every time I listen, and I've been using headphones since the early 1970s. This is the best I've ever had sound.
smily_headphones1.gif
 
May 11, 2007 at 12:35 AM Post #448 of 3,058
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Chaos /img/forum/go_quote.gif
And Elias, I have a question for you. I've checked my DAC1 USB and the jumpers are in place for the headphone output gain reduction. I still can only get to the fourth or fifth detent with the volume control when using my E500s. Is there a good way to control the volume in an Apple Powerbook/Itunes system?


36Ω is really low impedance. 119dB SPL/mW is too ear-bleedingly loud, too fast. Putting those into your ears is proably considered a form of suicide in some states
wink.gif


You've really got no choice but to use software volume control, methinks.

Believe me I feel your pain, my Grados are too loud too.
 
May 11, 2007 at 12:37 AM Post #449 of 3,058
Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man /img/forum/go_quote.gif
also i was hoping you would comment on this. some people say the dac1's headphone amp is just an "add on" and it was just put there as an extra item. they say it is not so good sounding but it was not intended to be. i think it sounds worth $300 by itself. i know you sell it for about that by itself. i think people that do not like it simply are presenting the usual subjective opinions. it may not be everyones favorite but i certainly do not find it to be unworthy.

i assume benchmark intended for the headphone amp to sound the best it could with in reason, and to compete with other comparably priced amps. is that correct?



I'm confused by most people's statements on this subject myself. I just wrote it off as people not knowing what the heck they're talking about, but I'm willing to hear them explain why the DAC1's headphone jack is not good to them. Maybe in a separate threatd, though, Jenga that this one is.
 
May 11, 2007 at 2:09 AM Post #450 of 3,058
Hi Everyone

New here & just joined. Noticed this thread so thought to contribute. I have some really top new toys
smily_headphones1.gif
- here is a review :)

John

Review of the Ultra Turbo Mod on the Benchmark DAC-1 by Steve Nugent at Empirical Audio + Esoteric VRDS transport

This review has been edited quite a few times to correct preliminary observations which later proved to be untrue. Jumping to conclusions is a dangerous trap and one I fell into because of not allowing the newly installed gear long enough to bed in. I initially made the incorrect assumption that because the Esoteric UX1 LE http://www.teac.com/esoteric/UX-1LTD.html player was used, it was ready to judge after only a short warm up time. The Esoteric reviews stated how a minimum of 200 hours burn in time was required but my feeling now it should be changed to “warm up time” and I guess the same applies to the newly modded Benchmark DAC1 from Empirical Audio. http://www.empiricalaudio.com/ The quality of the musical sound coming from this combo has improved heaps over the last 2 weeks.

Players discussed here are:
1.Esoteric UX-1 Limited Edition with much admired VRDS transport – a universal player but the video circuitry can be turned off;
2.Marantz SA-17 SACD player - highly modded with new clocks, black gate caps etc by James at Soundlabsgroup in Melbourne Australia.

The DAC under discussion has been modded 2X by Steve Nugent at Empirical Audio, first with the turbomod available in 2006 and now with a further upgrade which involved a rewiring & removal of an opamp stage. I use a Meridian 861 for processing surround sound and for feeding synthesised surround from 2 CH into the non stereo channels.

All L/R analog feeds discussed in this article go direct to a McIntosh C200 preamp -> Halcro DM68 amps -> Sound Labs “Majestic” full range electrostatic speakers. Connection between players and the DAC is via high quality RCA S/PDIF cabling (DH labs Silver sonic http://www.audioc.com/accessories1/dhlabs/d75.htm ) while the analog feed out from the Benchmark is via Kimber balanced. The stereo feed out from the players to the preamp (using their internal DACs) is via Siltec cabling. I feel the electronics coupled to those magnificent Sound Labs speakers [amps immediately behind them] are a first class test bed to demonstrate how good (or bad) the front end player/DAC gear is.

The Benchmark DAC-1 has received high praise in its factory form by the guys at Stereophile but Steve Nugent’s modifications take it to a much higher level of excellence. I have lived happily with the earlier turbomod in the system here for some time. It was very good and was slightly preferred to the analog out of the Marantz but the latest mod takes digital to analog conversion (total cost of this mod around $USD2850) up to another level.

I should emphasise a number points about all this:

1.The items under review must be left powered on long enough to settle down or false conclusions can be drawn;
2.Preliminary thoughts were that observed differences were subtle and might not be so clearly observed on less resolving systems – the “weakest link” in the chain syndrome applying with a vengeance, but after the items had been left on for more than a week my mind has been changed and the differences involved with the Esoteric and newly modded DAC1 are very obvious and positive;
3.The weakest link in the chain here is the software – huge differences in resolution etc are evident;
4.Auditory memory is most unreliable and this makes subtle differences less easy to detect;
5.Small differences in volume make comparisons difficult and can skew conclusions.

The musical quality from the modded Marantz coupled to the earlier Benchmark turbomodded DAC-1 was very good, if a little clinical and that turbomodded DAC-1 was slightly preferred to the output from the internal DAC of the Marantz. Not so now, the latest mod by Steve Nugent blows his earlier effort away completely. The side to side, front to back and soundstage resolution is stunning and far exceeds anything I ever expected to hear from CDs. It has “life” to it. Yes, some of that can be thanked to the Esoteric player, but not all because reverti to the direct analog out (direct to preamp and speakers) from the player using its internal DAC and the sound is relatively flat and a lot less involving. It is good, but lacks the life and space around the music that is wrought with the latest Empirical Audio modded DAC-1. Both are streets ahead of the Meridian 861 processor with the sound using it as the4 DAC coming out as very woolly and ill defined.

Now to try to get the Esoteric into perspective. Reading all the hype about the VRDS transport mechanism would have one believing it is the best thing invented since sliced bread. Well, one cannot help but admire the engineering of it but the bottom line is how it affects the audio quality and here my initial conclusion was that there was no dramatic chalk and cheese difference between it and the Marantz. I happen to have inadvertently purchased two identical CDs so, a day after getting the Esoteric both were played simultaneously in the Esoteric and the Marantz. Steve Nugent has rebuilt an Inday digital switcher (he was horrified at the original design) so it was very simple to switch between these two sources with both fed into the updated DAC-1. The beauty of this arrangement was that levels were identical and A/B comparison was a simple button switching affair. My wife and I listened very intently and she ultimately decided (without knowing which was playing) that the Esoteric was better, but not dramatically so.

However, a few days later, a friend with younger and more critical ears, compared the two players and his verdict was the sound from the Marantz was muddy and ill defined in comparison. He looked to see what major change had been made to the system and was surprised it was only the player which had been altered. He labelled the Marantz as “faulty” by comparison! In tandem with this I have altered my previous appraisal that the sound quality between the two players is similar. It obviously is not and the first comparison reported above reflects the mediocre quality of the CD used + there has been more time for the Esoteric to settle in to the system - it has been left permanently switched on since arrival. Traps for young and old players (pun intended)!!

So yes, the improvement, on good software, is very evident. Digital sources are frequently and justifiably criticised as sounding edgy but the latest mod has removed that. The harpsichord is a particularly difficult instrument to reproduce well and often comes through with a raspy twang to it. Not so via the Esoteric/Empirical Audio modded Benchmark. Comparing that sound to Esoteric’s own internal DAC there is no twanginess there either but the sound was more recessed and less open and not as musically appealing as with the modded Benchmark. One CD my wife loves is that which has Neil Diamond singing “Song Sung Blue” (I guess Mozart lost any claim on copyright for the plagiarism involved). Previously his voice had a slight rasp to it but that has now gone. Similarly, the excellent “Cantus Let Your Voice be Heard” engineered by John Atkinson, previously had an edge to it. It is now gone and the illusion of the singers being in the room is thrilling. Every instrument and every voice is clearly and clearly defined. Having collected most of the standard classical repertoire (and repeated a lot of it) I like to purchase unknown (to me) works. In the last batch of acquisitions is an EMI classics “Panufnik conducts Panufnik” [0946 3 52289 2 2] and the audio quality on this is hair raising. When I looked at the sleeve notes it was amazing to see it was originally released in 1967 and 1975. So, I guess it was a simple recording without the forest of microphones going into 30+ channel mixers that have been the delight of engineers in more recent times.

In a word the audio is now more musical with quite incredible front to back and side to side soundstaging which makes multichannel SACD less appealing as it relies more on 6 speakers to give the same sort of life to the music. So, now both units have settled down I find 2CH CD via the modded DAC-1 exceeds the resolution and clarity of SACD on good software. And that is the rub with CDs. IMHO there is more care spent on engineering SACDs than on most CDs so it is unsurprising SACDS generally sound better in systems. But, this is no longer the case here. Maybe hard for people to believe, but the Steve Nugent modded Benchmark DAC-1 makes CDs sound better than SACDs!!!!

Bottom line – it is only after 20 years that the potential of the CD format is being realised. So folks, if you want to tap into this potential and have a big enough budget for it, purchase a Benchmark DAC-1 and send it to Steve Nugent for the ultimate massage. IMO, given a reasonable input (which could mean a clock etc upgrade on the player), the quality of the DAC is critical to the quality of the signal emerging in analog form, and the Empirical Audio modded Benchmark DAC-1 yields that quality in spades. I was starting to feel it was time to abandon CDs and only collect SACDs in future. With the caveat that the engineering on CDs varies a lot, I’ll continue to buy them as the library is so huge. But no system can turn an audio pigs ear piece of software into silk ear, on the contrary, a revealing system reveals the flaws just as much as it can reveal hidden glories.

I can forsee some reading this will mutter about me being just another kid, happy with his new toys and will not accept that (some) CDs sound better here than SACDs. Maybe the sound is “different” but that does not make it better etc etc. Well yes, I am happy with the latest upgrades and yes, it does sound different, but that difference is an improvement is by a wide and very obvious margin and is not the shift sideways that I will admit I have been guilty of in the past. Full marks to Steve Nugent at Empirical Audio for his latest upgrade and yes, hats off to TEAC for a very good player in the UX-1 LE. And my feeling is that SACDs could sound much, much better with better processing than I’m getting from the Esoteric (and I got from the Marantz) but with the paranoia about copy protection that is presently in place, modding of the digital SACD stream does not seem to have been attempted yet, or has it? That is a challenge for Steve Nugent!!!

So, have I come to the end of the audio upgrade lunacy? I would like to think so, but then I proclaimed that last year .

John

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