[zkn]

Elias

What kind of monster load headphones am I supposed to drive with the non-USB DAC1 headphone outs again?

They're so powerful that nothing seems to handle it or am I missing some pro audio world point here?

 

[s.a.b.]

I drive the "standard" 250 ohm Beyer dt990, 880 ('03 version), as well as the AKG 701, with the non-USB DAC1 and have no problem with the gain- the volume control is always between 10 and 12 o'clock.



Quote:

Originally Posted by zkn /img/forum/go_quote.gif What kind of monster load headphones am I supposed to drive with the non-USB DAC1 headphone outs again? They're so powerful that nothing seems to handle it or am I missing some pro audio world point here?

 

[zkn]

How is that possible?

I can't get even to 09:00 with the 300 Ohm HD650 from digital source with full digital volume.

 

[poo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonygeno /img/forum/go_quote.gif It sounds very good. Plus this isn't a comparison thread, now is it? Those interested in comparisons can do a search as there are several threads comparing the Benchmark to other dacs. And if that doesn't sufficiently float your boat, there's always the option of starting a new thread requesting the Benchmark vs the dac of your choice.

Thanks for that revelation...

 

[poo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by euclid /img/forum/go_quote.gif listening to FLAC or CD on my computer Chaintech AV710 outputting optical to DAC1 the headphone amp is 200% better than i expected based on impressions that i have read, i will not be buying another headphone amp for this i will upgrade to the USB instead to get the added volume range and hopefully a mod in the future. its not harsh or thin or sucked out or basically anything, its clean, decay lasts forever its really digging detail deep in the recording. if you want euphoric look elsewhere. when it comes down to the form factor and function the Benchmark does what i need. i am using the volume controlled headphone amp for my computer and i am running the RCA out to tripath amp to drive bookshelves for my computer. then using calibrated XLR with 20db attenutation to connect balanced to Headamp GS-X in another room which preamps my main sytem, no splitters or adapters all i need to do it disconnect the balanced cables from my Meridian G08 and plug in the balanced runs from the DAC1, if the GS-X had 2 balanced inputs like the Apache i wouldnt need to disconnect anything just change inputs. i bought the black DAC1 with newer non-rackmount faceplate, it looks 4x nicer than that the Lavry "cablebox" and is 4x smaller than the Stello DA220, with more functionality than both. this "infomerical" is called manufacturer support and i am surprised Benchmark has been so open about their engineering. go back and reread the first few pages badmouthing the USB untill Elias registered and defended the design, it didnt start as a nice thread but eventually the haters shut up, IMHO there is nothing not to like about this unit except the high volume level on the headphone amp.

Excellent information - much appreciated. By 'high volume level on the headphone amp' that you mention, do you mean you need to turn volume up more than you expected to achieve a suitable level? You make it sound as though this is better on the USB version - am I reading this correctly?

Thanks.

 

[zkn]

No he means what I've been on about all the time

you reach the max listening levels way too early with the original DAC1

USBDAC1 has a solution for this but IMO they increased the price way too much. On the other hand that also makes me not to regret buying the old one just before USB version rolled out.

 

[thomaspf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by euclid this "infomerical" is called manufacturer support and i am surprised Benchmark has been so open about their engineering. go back and reread the first few pages badmouthing the USB untill Elias registered and defended the design

I don't think anyone was badmouthing USB. And the registering of Elias does not change the facts about the Windows USB driver in any way.

There is just no point in arguing with sales people.

Cheers

Thomas

 

[euclid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zkn /img/forum/go_quote.gif Elias What kind of monster load headphones am I supposed to drive with the non-USB DAC1 headphone outs again? They're so powerful that nothing seems to handle it or am I missing some pro audio world point here?

i asked Elias this same question becuase it didnt make sense to me either, what headphones could possibly need that much gain? since its Saturday and he wont likely respond until Monday i will paraphase our conversion.

he explained that in the pro audio application of recording a live event the mics are hooked to an ADC then back through a DAC for monitoring, during the initial setup process (in silence) the ambient noise pollution is measured by cranking the headphone volume on the DAC1 and listening for interference or stray sound that may degrade the live recording. so basically for this application the louder the better and he explained that a Benchmark mic preamp uses the same headphone amp as the DAC1 and pro users are complaining it is not loud enough.

we are simply using it as a home headphone amp for casual listening, which was not its intended purpose.

also regarding the Beyers reaching 12:00, i get the HD650 up to about 10:00 before its too loud, even though the Beyers are less impedance than the Senns when i owned the DT880 i needed to raise the volume of my GS-X higher to reach the same listening level as the Senn HD650, the Beyers are probibly not as efficient as the Senns.

if i was just using the Senns i would probibly not upgrade to the USB to get the 10db attenuation, but i want to hopfullly get my Audio Technicas to the 10:00-11:00 volume level and Senns past 12:00. right now my ATs are about 4 or 5 clicks from the bottom, no usable volume range on the standard DAC1 with low impedance headphones, i imagine Grado would be the same.

 

[tonygeno]

Quote:

Originally Posted by poo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for that revelation...

You're welcome. Certain posters want to turn this into a this versus that thread and this thread is anything but. Forty-six good pages evidently pisses certain people off.

 

[euclid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomaspf /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think anyone was badmouthing USB. And the registering of Elias does not change the facts about the Windows USB driver in any way. There is just no point in arguing with sales people. Cheers Thomas

sorry but i disagree with you, this is more than marketing BS, it is good engineering and Benchmark has been explaining and defending their DAC1 design.

for sure there was at least 5 people within the first 2 pages who instantly dismissed the USB upgrade as an overpriced afterthought to cash in on redundant USB input. after Benchmark came forward and set the facts straight and even shared some seemingly proprietary development info there was simply no denying it was more than just hype. 46 pages later it seems everyones questions have been answered and the only ones left posting are now owners asking for tech support for our own setups.

i know that by going optical out of a PC soundcard i am sending insane levels of jitter in the name reducing RF interference of coax in such a noisy environment, Benchmark is the only manufacturer that has openly discussed and adequately explained how they handle jitter, and by totally reclocking the DAC1 should be completely immune by design. since recieving it myself i realise the sound quality claims are real.

there are a ton of DAC comparison threads floating around, why does this thread need to turn into more SQ comparisons? i wouldnt trust other headfiers saying they like the Stello better becuse it sounds "fuller", 99% chance they are just hearing high levels of jitter and interpretting it as a warmer midrange, likewise it has no internal headphone amp so any Stello DA220 sound impression is also based on external interconnects and seperate headphone amp.

edit: one more thing, i have been reading DAC1 impressions on Headfi since before i registered, especially from meet impressions, and each seems to regurgitate the same info about the headphone amp being nothing special but not once can i recall reading about the high gain setting. is it possible that alot of these computer setups have been compensating for the high headphone gain by lowering the volume digitally in software?... and as explained by Benchmark also introducing high levels of distortion. in my experience you need to go VERY high up in the amp chain to maintain this level of upper detail, bass and overall resolution without associated grain and distortion. i am looking forward to receiving the USB version so i can give the headphone amp some more critical listening and will post some actual impressions in a new thread when i can.

 

[poo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by euclid /img/forum/go_quote.gif there are a ton of DAC comparison threads floating around, why does this thread need to turn into more SQ comparisons?

Because SQ is what it's all about... at least for me...

Comparisons are all many of us have to measure so called 'real world' situations. This thread is about (or at least originally was about) the fact that the DAC1 is now available with USB, and that in itself begs for comparison.

If we didn't compare components - there wouldn't be much point to the site in general - everyone would be happy with what they had. Discussing DACs (or any components for that matter) in a comparative context gives a discussion meaning. In fact most comments are comparative, wether intentionally or not, because peoples impression of something is guided by what previous experience they have to compare it too.

 

[zkn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by euclid /img/forum/go_quote.gif also regarding the Beyers reaching 12:00, i get the HD650 up to about 10:00 before its too loud, even though the Beyers are less impedance than the Senns when i owned the DT880 i needed to raise the volume of my GS-X higher to reach the same listening level as the Senn HD650, the Beyers are probibly not as efficient as the Senns.

I own the DT770/80 which are almost the same as 300 Ohm sennheisers so maybe.. but I don't want to get 400 EUR 600 Ohm manufacture beyers.

 

[infinitesymphony]

I have a question about DAC1 differences... I've heard from several people that during the course of production, the DAC1 has received some significant updates without version designations. It appears that the USB version has the most changes with regard to the original design. Can anyone comment on any or all of the changes that have taken place?

I apologize if this has been answered earlier in the thread.

 

[thomaspf]

Quote:

sorry but i disagree with you, this is more than marketing BS, it is good engineering and Benchmark has been explaining and defending their DAC1 design.

I appreciate your enthusiasm but I am unaware of any engineering Benchmark has done on the USB part except for interfacing to the digital output. The chip is a standard TI chip and the firmware comes from Centrance. Maybe Centrance has done some engineering on Benchmark's behalf.

Some of the claims made on this thread about this solution are to quote you again 'marketing BS'. The DAC1 is a very good DAC but how can they claim that their device changes the behavior of how Windows works.

I looked at a bunch of USB audio devices in detail including the DAC1 USB and the only detail in how their USB audio device looks different to the system is that it annouces itself as only supporting 24bit PCM. That does not make the system suddenly send bit perfect data to it.

Cheers

Thomas

 

[sangel]

Hello Elias,

Here, http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac1/dac1-usb_par.pdf i.e. a bench test review,
I have found an issue releted to DAC1 usb, output impedance on XLR's.
The reviewer found - measured - an output impedance - on XLR - of 133 Ohms.
Now, considering that the output impedance - from the specs - is 60 Ohms, (i.e. 30 + 30 Ohms per +/- leg ), then what is the real status for this subject... This is very important...as you may realize..

Thanks in advance.

Best

Sangel

ps. As far as I now the DAC1 output impedance remains stable - unchanged (for fix and variable output modes on BOTH RCA & XLR)