Benchmark DAC1 now available with USB
Aug 9, 2010 at 10:35 AM Post #2,956 of 3,058
 
Quote:
 
If I get active that have a built-in amp, should I have the volume on speakers at 100% and control the volume on the DAC1 USB?

 
 

I would suggest using the DAC1's volume control as long as you are in the optimal range of the volume pot (11 - 3 o'clock).  If this range is too loud or not loud enough, then I would adjust the volume controls on the speakers to achieve this position.
 
All the best,
Elias
 
Aug 17, 2010 at 9:35 PM Post #2,957 of 3,058
Thanks for another HD song release on the  Masters From Their Day program.
 
Glad I signed up for the video and song updates.
 
88.2 kHz,24 bit "In The Water" song sounds so good on the JH-13's!
 
Enjoyable to watch the live sound session,read about the recording details,then have a listen to a new song.
 
Much appreciated.
 
Aug 19, 2010 at 10:29 AM Post #2,958 of 3,058
Thanks for watching and listening!!
 
If you would like to see this project continue, please consider sharing the link with friends, family, other members of this and other forums, Facebook, Twitter, email, blog, etc.  This project will only be able to continue if there is sufficient interest and viewership, so please spread the word!!
 
Thanks so much!!
 
-Elias


 
Oct 21, 2010 at 2:25 PM Post #2,960 of 3,058
Hi Elias,
 
I have been using my DAC1 USB for around 2 1/2 years now - it is both reliable and sounds wonderful! As you have mentioned in a recent post, the optimal volume pot range is 11 to 3 O'clock. To use this range with my headphones, I have had to use the iTunes digital volume control. Fortunately, I believe that iTunes forms a 24-bit dithered connection with the DAC1. Am I right to say this?
 
Also, how much of the digital volume control of iTunes can I use before there is too much of a compromise in sound quality, e.g., not less than the halfway mark? I'm sure there is a limit as to how much I can use the iTunes volume control before the overall resolution of my 16-bit music files drops below 16-bit, isn't that right?
 
Thanks in advance for answering my questions.
 
Cheers,
cansman
 
Oct 27, 2010 at 1:15 PM Post #2,961 of 3,058
Hi Elias,
 
Anyone there...
blink.gif
?
 
Cheers,
cansman
 
Oct 29, 2010 at 3:41 PM Post #2,962 of 3,058
I apologize for the delayed response.  We're in the middle of trade-show season (AES, Rocky Mountain Audio), so the prep for that has been taking up almost all my time.  The rest has been divided between the MastersFromTheirDay.com video series and preparing to release Benchmark's newest product that we will be announcing next week (I can't give it away yet...but lets just say it is several ADC1's in one box).
 
Its been very crazy-busy...
 
Quote:
Hi Elias,
 
I have been using my DAC1 USB for around 2 1/2 years now - it is both reliable and sounds wonderful! As you have mentioned in a recent post, the optimal volume pot range is 11 to 3 O'clock. To use this range with my headphones, I have had to use the iTunes digital volume control. Fortunately, I believe that iTunes forms a 24-bit dithered connection with the DAC1. Am I right to say this?
 
Also, how much of the digital volume control of iTunes can I use before there is too much of a compromise in sound quality, e.g., not less than the halfway mark? I'm sure there is a limit as to how much I can use the iTunes volume control before the overall resolution of my 16-bit music files drops below 16-bit, isn't that right?
 
Thanks in advance for answering my questions.
 
Cheers,
cansman



Yes, iTunes volume control is 24-bits, and works wonderfully.  I've done tests on the most recent iTunes releases (v10) and it is still behaving as it should.
 
To determine how many decibels you can reduce the volume before you are comprimising, you must look at the S/N of the D/A you are using.  The lower the noise of the D/A, the lower you can reduce the digital audio volume before the D/A's noise floor becomes audible.  In the case of the is the DAC1, you can reduce the volume by more then 20 dB before it begins to compromise the noise performance of the DAC1.  In terms of the iTunes volume control, this means you can reduce the volume to about 10% of the volume slider (90% down from full-volume).
 
Best,
Elias
 
Oct 31, 2010 at 5:36 PM Post #2,963 of 3,058
Hey Elias,
 
Thanks so much for responding to my queries despite your busy schedule. Congratulations on Benchmark's imminent launch of a new product!
 
In regard to the iTunes digital volume slider, from what you have said and assuming that the volume control is subjectively linear, i.e., a 50% reduction of the slider will result in 1/2 perceived loudness (-10dB), this means that the D/A converter in the DAC1 has a real world S/N ratio of around 126dB, is that right?
 
How did I come out with that figure? Essentially, a 100% to 50% volume slider reduction will result in -10dB volume reduction; then from 50% to 25% reduction, another -10dB. Finally from 25% to 12.5% reduction - which is around the 10% lower threshold you recommended - another -10dB reduction. This adds up to a total of -30dB reduction. Now, the DAC1 must at least meet the theoretical best S/N ratio of CD reply (when playing 16-bit music), and that is 96dB (is that right?) in order not to compromise sound quality. Consequently, 96dB + 30dB = 126dB!
 
Is my explanation correct or am I totally way off? I am no EE or Sound Engineer, just a music and hi-fi enthusiast so I might be totally wrong! Please feel free to correct me!
 
Finally, I am relieved to know that I can use a significant portion of the iTunes volume control (without compromising sound quality) because I have been contemplating buying a DAC1 HDR. With some of my cans, the volume level is actually too loud when the DAC1 volume knob is at the 11th indent - around 11 o'clock (as suggested by you and the manual). From my subjective experience, I actually do find that using too little of the volume knob of the DAC1 results in the music sounding somewhat off balance - it is like there are some frequency shifts - no longer a linear frequency response. The music also sounds a little more grittier and less transparent. I guess that is why Benchmark recommends an optimal operating range for the use of the volume pot in the DAC1.
 
Elias, I appreciate your response only when you are available to do so. Thanks again for your help!
 
Cheers,
cansman
 
Nov 15, 2010 at 11:40 PM Post #2,964 of 3,058


Jon L said:
/img/forum/go_quote.gif

I don't know what they're smoking at Benchmark, but clearly their DAC-1 success has gone to their head. Such baseless, ridiculous hyperbole is sad to witness. It might help if they revealed what exactly is so stupendous about their USB implementation.

Their USB solution sounds like the usual run-of-the-mill USB/spdif chip that supports 24/96 (such as one in M-Audio Transit) that feeds their spdif receiver with the "ultralock" asynchronous upsampling circuit, which will feed their AD DAC chip. Big deal, and NO WAY is it worth $300 premium.

Unless they start releasing some specific info about some new, wonder USB to I2S technology with custom software optimization, the hot air will definitely escape.




Where is its documentation? Thanks for your answer! I still wonder why though I already got it solved.
 
Nov 30, 2010 at 12:39 PM Post #2,965 of 3,058
Hi Elias,
 
I just got a DAC1 recently (non USB or other, REV.C) and I want to use the Calibrated mode to output.
But the prior user tuned the trim-pot, I want to turn it back to the factory setting.
Sorry I can't wait your reply and I've done the tests below:
 
I used a multimeter to measure the RCA and XLR balance.
I took the 1kHz Square 0dBFS test tone for testing, from here: http://binkster.net/extras.shtml#cd .
Attenuation of XLR is set to 0dB.
The output result I got with RCA is 1.92V and XLR is 7.92V (tuned the same of both Left and Right using the trimmer).
(BTW my EMU 1212M soundcard's XLR output I measued is Left 7.95V and Right 7.99V, with the same tone tested.)
 
I want to ask that are these values I got OK?
Or how can I have the proper way to get the factory setting as the manual says RCA 2vRMS (8.2 dBu) or XLR +4 dBu@-0 dBFS or something?
 
Thank you!
 
Regards,
lhan
 
Dec 1, 2010 at 10:30 AM Post #2,966 of 3,058
[size=small][size=11pt]Hi Ihan,[/size][/size]
 
[size=small][size=11pt]To calibrate the DAC1, you will need a constant-level digital test-tone, a volt-meter, and a small flat-head screw-driver that can turn the trimmers.  [/size][/size]
 
 
[size=small][size=11pt]1. Determine the proper output level you are trying to acheive.  If you are sending the DAC1's output into a pre-amp, you will want to ask the manufacturer of the pre-amp for the ideal signal-level for their pre-amp's input.  If you are just 'going by ear', play music through the system and adjust one calibration trimmer of the DAC1.[/size][/size]
 
[size=small][size=11pt]2. Calculate the voltage that corresponds to the manufacturers suggestions using this dB-Voltage converter: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm[/size][/size]
 
[size=small][size=11pt]3. Play the constant-level digital test-tone into the DAC1 [/size][/size]
 
[size=small][size=11pt]4. Measure the voltage from the inner contact to the outside (for RCA) or from pin-2 to pin-3 (for XLR)[/size][/size]
 
[size=small][size=11pt]5. Adjust each channels calibration trimmers appropriately.[/size][/size]
 
[size=small][size=11pt]Best,[/size][/size]
[size=small][size=11pt]Elias[/size][/size]
 
Dec 2, 2010 at 10:40 AM Post #2,968 of 3,058
Rich text editor, ContentEditor_1, press ALT 0 for help. Quote:
cansman said:


In regard to the iTunes digital volume slider, from what you have said and assuming that the volume control is subjectively linear, i.e., a 50% reduction of the slider will result in 1/2 perceived loudness (-10dB), this means that the D/A converter in the DAC1 has a real world S/N ratio of around 126dB, is that right?
 
How did I come out with that figure? Essentially, a 100% to 50% volume slider reduction will result in -10dB volume reduction; then from 50% to 25% reduction, another -10dB. Finally from 25% to 12.5% reduction - which is around the 10% lower threshold you recommended - another -10dB reduction. This adds up to a total of -30dB reduction. Now, the DAC1 must at least meet the theoretical best S/N ratio of CD reply (when playing 16-bit music), and that is 96dB (is that right?) in order not to compromise sound quality. Consequently, 96dB + 30dB = 126dB!


You had the right idea, but your numbers are off.  First of all, a 50% decrease in amplitude corresponds to a 6 dB drop.  So, at 12.5% volume, it's actually -18 dB.  I'm not sure iTunes volume control is this precise (in other words, I'm not sure that the graphic representation of 50% is equal to an audible 50%), but its pretty close.
 
In order to add no more then 1 dB of noise, the playback system must have a noise-floor at least 6 dB lower then the music.  This is because when you add noises together - one 6 dB lower then the other - the result is 1 dB above the higher noise floor.  Likewise, when you add noises together of the same amplitude, you have a 3 dB increase in noise.
 
For example, if my playback system has a SNR (signal-to-noise ratio) of 102 dB and the music has a SNR of 96 dB (16-bit), the overall SNR will be 95 dB (a 1 dB increase).  If my playback system has a SNR of 96 dB and the music's SNR is 96 dB, the result will be a SNR of 93 dB (a 3 dB increase).
 
So, your complete playback system should have a SNR at least 6 dB below the music to have a minimal noise contribution.
 
The DAC1 has a SNR of 114 dB (worst case) - measurable both at the built-in HPA2 headphone outputs and the main analog outputs.  This means that you can apply 12 dB of digital attenuation before you add more then 1 dB of noise to a 16-bit recording.
 
If you are using any additional equipment beyond the DAC1 (e.g., a 3rd party headphone amp, a pre-amp, a power amp), you need to add their noises into that equation also.
 
 
Quote:
Finally, I am relieved to know that I can use a significant portion of the iTunes volume control (without compromising sound quality) because I have been contemplating buying a DAC1 HDR. With some of my cans, the volume level is actually too loud when the DAC1 volume knob is at the 11th indent - around 11 o'clock (as suggested by you and the manual).

 
Yes, as I mentioned above, if you are using the HPA2 headphone amp that is built into the DAC1, then you can apply up to 12 dB of attenuation in iTunes before adding significant noise to a 16-bit recording.
 
The higher models of the DAC1 series have selectable gain-ranges that allow you to reduce the headphone output below the standard DAC1 level without diminishing SNR (DAC1 USB has one range 10 dB below the standard DAC1 level, and the DAC1 PRE and DAC1 HDR have two ranges below: 10 dB and 20 dB).  This allows you to customize the headphone amp to suit your specific headphones' sensitivities and listening preferences.
 
Best,
Elias

 
Dec 2, 2010 at 10:55 AM Post #2,969 of 3,058


Quote:
[size=small][size=11pt]Hi Ihan,[/size][/size]
 
[size=small][size=11pt]To calibrate the DAC1, you will need a constant-level digital test-tone, a volt-meter, and a small flat-head screw-driver that can turn the trimmers.  [/size][/size]
 
 
[size=small][size=11pt]1. Determine the proper output level you are trying to acheive.  If you are sending the DAC1's output into a pre-amp, you will want to ask the manufacturer of the pre-amp for the ideal signal-level for their pre-amp's input.  If you are just 'going by ear', play music through the system and adjust one calibration trimmer of the DAC1.[/size][/size]
 
[size=small][size=11pt]2. Calculate the voltage that corresponds to the manufacturers suggestions using this dB-Voltage converter: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm[/size][/size]
 
[size=small][size=11pt]3. Play the constant-level digital test-tone into the DAC1 [/size][/size]
 
[size=small][size=11pt]4. Measure the voltage from the inner contact to the outside (for RCA) or from pin-2 to pin-3 (for XLR)[/size][/size]
 
[size=small][size=11pt]5. Adjust each channels calibration trimmers appropriately.[/size][/size]
 
[size=small][size=11pt]Best,[/size][/size]
[size=small][size=11pt]Elias[/size][/size]

 
Hi Elias,
 
Thanks for your reply. :)
But I'm still curious that could I get more close/precise value as the factory setting with multimeter?
 
Regards,
lhan
 
 
Dec 2, 2010 at 1:12 PM Post #2,970 of 3,058
Thanks Elias for clarifying my understanding - appreciate your patience and help, as always!
 

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