[Ruppin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by James From memory, both DACs are again different from the Benchmark DAC1, which I gave up to get the Lavry DA10, so while for me they are both better than the DAC1 I myself cannot say that I couldn't live with any of the three forever. For me the hardest part to get right is the upper midrange-through-treble range, and each has its own problems in that area. You definitely don't get that slight Benchmark DAC1 coldness in either of the other two DACs, but the DAC3 may be too extended for some and the DA10 a little too uninvolving for others. Ruppin: I think you will be pleased by the USB input. Know that it is only up to 16-bit/48kHz; however, ASIO works just fine (e.g. foobar2000 v0.8.3 with the .exe version of the ASIO component).

James,

Thanks for the info, but you puzzle me. The DAC3 costs 2.5 times what the Benchmark or the Lavry cost. You also say the DAC3 is bright. So, I fail to understand what it is that you think that could possibly make the DAC3 worth purchasing. Keep in mind that I neither agree, nor disagree, I'm just trying to figure out what you mean.

Regards.

 

[tonyx]

What should I do?

I should buy a DA10 or DAC3 right now?

 

[krusty09]

buy a da-100 and don't look back.

It's not like it's the last word in dac's but for the money or for that matter any money it's pretty friggen good.

After it gets about 500 hours on it really opens up.

$695.00 you can't go wrong.

 

[tonyx]

What is DA100?

Thanks!

 

[krusty09]

www.hifi500.com

Da-100

Check it out.

 

[James]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruppin James, Thanks for the info, but you puzzle me. The DAC3 costs 2.5 times what the Benchmark or the Lavry cost. You also say the DAC3 is bright. So, I fail to understand what it is that you think that could possibly make the DAC3 worth purchasing. Regards.

Perhaps my writing was too stark. Just because I say the DAC3 is brighter than the DA10 doesn't mean that it's a paint-peeling monster! The DAC3 is bright compared to the DA10, but equivalently the Lavry is rolled-off compared to the Bel Canto. Neither DAC would be called bright or rolled-off on an absolute level and consequently it would be a serious mistake to call the DAC3 bright and be done with it. If the DAC3 were actually painful to listen to I would have sold it in an instant. Neither DAC has the treble coldness of the Benchmark DAC1, for example, and that's probably a far more polarizing characteristic for most people. Finally, I mentioned that the DAC3 is less bright than the DAC2, and the latter was known for being a very smooth operator. It's just that I was coming from the sweetness of the DA10 that the Bel Canto surprised me with its treble extension.

BTW, there are those who think the DA10 doesn't have enough treble extension. For example, Iron_Dreamer (who wrote the well-known review of the DA10 here on HF) eventually went with a Stello DAC over just this issue. Others find the Lavry a bit drab. For these people the DAC3 probably strikes the right balance.

What the 2.5X cost gets you is pretty significant, IMHO, in addition to the greater overall neutrality:

- Extremely precise remote-controllability and a real volume knob

- Multiple inputs to satisfy many digital sources. For example, I have a Sony DVD transport (coax), PC source (USB), and a modded XM Radio (optical). I still have one BNC and one AES/BSU input -- both easily adapted to use with coax signals -- to use in the future

- Dual outputs (RCA and XLR)

- Significantly better looks and supreme ease-of-use (major positive WAF). I'm being serious here: no matter what alternative universe die-hard audiophiles live in, you have to pay for good looks and interface.

In my case, none of these factors matters an iota to me because I already have a Placette RVC as highly transparent remote-operated preamp and an Inday digital switch (also remote-controllable) to expand the number of inputs, so other than its rather ghetto look the Lavry + Placette + Inday combo is operationally the equivalent of the Bel Canto -- heck, even the combined price is in the same ballpark. In fact, in my case the Placette is heavily modded so the Lavry/Placette/Inday combo is *more* expensive than a retail Bel Canto DAC3. So it's really down to the sound.

And again, lest it gets lost on those who tend to draw strong conclusions from even heavily-disclaimed reviews: these two DACs lie on opposite sides of a transparent coin. You can only tell the difference by listening very closely, and most of the time cannot tell the two apart. Only in extraordinary circumstances -- e.g. sibilance with the DAC3 or muddy classical music (e.g. Telarc recordings) with the DA10 -- is the difference more clear. I can easily find cases where one will annoy me and the other will shine to perfection. So it goes ....

 

[Ruppin]

I have a pre-amp. I am not especially concerned about looks (as long as the quality is good). I have volume on my pre-amp. I don't care about a remote control.

I care tons about the best conversion from digital to analog (hence the name, DAC). I have a Benchmark DAC1 (recent version) which I prefer in terms of sound and build quality to the Lavry. I'd be happy to get a better DAC (better conversion). So far, no one is saying that the Bel Canto is better, let alone much better than DACs costing $1000. Anybody disagree? Any reviews?

 

[James]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruppin I care tons about the best conversion from digital to analog (hence the name, DAC). I have a Benchmark DAC1 (recent version) which I prefer in terms of sound and build quality to the Lavry. I'd be happy to get a better DAC (better conversion). So far, no one is saying that the Bel Canto is better, let alone much better than DACs costing $1000. Anybody disagree? Any reviews?

There are no absolutes in audio. A $10,000 DAC may be better than a Benchmark DAC1 in every way and yet not be your cup of tea. I have already opined that the Bel Canto DAC3 is more neutral than the Lavry DA10. This alone may justify it's higher price. The Benchmark DAC1 is, if nothing else, brighter than the Lavry DA10: this may sway your favor to the Bel Canto DAC3 as well, while eliminating the Benchmark's treble character and substantially increasing soundstage depth and width. And speaking about Benchmark's slight treble cold/hardness: this was something that I felt I could do without, and at least in that sense I feel both the Lavry and Bel Canto are better than the Benchmark. But none of this makes a difference if you simply like the Benchmark's sound: it doesn't matter what the price point is!

You have piqued my curiosity: what was it about the Lavry DA10 that made you choose the Benchmark DAC1 instead?

 

[tonyx]

I think somebody like Chinese Tea and somebody like English Tea.

The fact may right or wrong but that's the writer's feeling. Nobody can said that's wrong or bad taste even someone disagree.

I think every of us just want to share experience and idea. Everyone can express your own.

I am a new comer. I just sold my Chord DAC64 last week. I thinkI plan to buy a new DAC. I like to get more information from here.

Happy Listening

 

[Ruppin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by James You have piqued my curiosity: what was it about the Lavry DA10 that made you choose the Benchmark DAC1 instead?

1) Benchmark manufacturers in US. Good warranty and customer service. Beter dealer network plus good direct sales.

2) Ability to switch between outputs, and the ability to use either the volume knob, or adjustment screws to vary output.

3) Also, I seem to recall that there are better simultaneous output options withiout any re-wiring.

4) Twin headphone jacks that are fairly good as a headphone amp (the thing is pretty good with a Senn 650).

5) Reputation.

That's pretty much it. The Lavry just looked like the FOTM at the time.

 

[James]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruppin 1) Benchmark manufacturers in US. Good warranty and customer service. Beter dealer network plus good direct sales. 2) Ability to switch between outputs, and the ability to use either the volume knob, or adjustment screws to vary output. 3) Also, I seem to recall that there are better simultaneous output options withiout any re-wiring. 4) Twin headphone jacks that are fairly good as a headphone amp (the thing is pretty good with a Senn 650). 5) Reputation. That's pretty much it. The Lavry just looked like the FOTM at the time.

I meant: what didn't you like about the Lavry sonically? I think we can all agree that the Benchmark/Lavry/Bel Canto all have different incidentals. For example, Lavry's sampling rate indicator made me aware that playing Foobar2000 in DirectSound2 mode will start out at 44.1kHz and end up at 48kHz if I play a movie in PowerDVD, but that all programs are forced to output at 44.1kHz if I run Foobar2000 in ASIO mode. So this is a very useful feature that the other DACs don't provide.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruppin I care tons about the best conversion from digital to analog (hence the name, DAC). I have a Benchmark DAC1 (recent version) which I prefer in terms of sound and build quality to the Lavry. I'd be happy to get a better DAC (better conversion). So far, no one is saying that the Bel Canto is better, let alone much better than DACs costing $1000. Anybody disagree? Any reviews?

Ruppin,
With all due respect, you appear to have added virtually nothing to this thread, apart from statements infering that you're (a) a DAC1 owner (b) haven't heard a DAC3 and (c) seem to be desperately wanting the DAC3 to NOT be better (did one kill you cat in a past life)?
Frankly, I wouldn't worry about it. As already stated, if you're happy with your DAC1, stop worrying, go listen to some great tunes. If you think you have some money burning a hole in your pocket, go have a listen yourself and see whether you like some of the alternative styles of presentation.
Me, I've never heard a DAC1, but I'm hopefully smart enough to not try to shoot it down just because I own something that isn't a DAC1.

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Sukebe Ruppin, With all due respect, you appear to have added virtually nothing to this thread, apart from statements infering that you're (a) a DAC1 owner (b) haven't heard a DAC3 and (c) seem to be desperately wanting the DAC3 to NOT be better (did one kill you cat in a past life)? Frankly, I wouldn't worry about it. As already stated, if you're happy with your DAC1, stop worrying, go listen to some great tunes. If you think you have some money burning a hole in your pocket, go have a listen yourself and see whether you like some of the alternative styles of presentation. Me, I've never heard a DAC1, but I'm hopefully smart enough to not try to shoot it down just because I own something that isn't a DAC1.

I didn't read that at all in his post.

He's simply asking for links to reviews. Probably hoping for 6moons or Stereophile to tell him what he should think.

But I trust my own ears first and people I know and trust here. Then I might entertain the opinions of a magazine/online writer.

-Ed

 

[James]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood I didn't read that at all in his post. He's simply asking for links to reviews. Probably hoping for 6moons or Stereophile to tell him what he should think. But I trust my own ears first and people I know and trust here. Then I might entertain the opinions of a magazine/online writer. -Ed

Yah, I too feel Ruppin was just asking for info, although I agree with Edwood that there's an element of his yearning for someone else's stamp of approval. The fact that Ruppin mentioned Benchmark's reputation as being superior to that of Lavry Engineering's puts paid to his opinion that the DAC1 is better than the DA10.

I'm counting my lucky stars that I can retain more than one DAC to choose between because otherwise I'd be forever hopping from one component to the other looking for the non-existent holy grail. Neither the Lavry DA10 nor the Bel Canto DAC3 is exactly what I look for in a DAC, but I'm leaning towards keeping the DAC3 as I know that neutrality is easier to live with in the long term. Last night I spent the entire evening listening to symphonic music -- as opposed to nastily-recorded pop, for example -- and discovered that the DA10 is often missing that last bit of air in the generally more-distant acoustic of symphonic recordings. It is also missing that ever-so-slight lower-to-mid-treble emphasis that the Lavry automatically inherits by being more rolled-off on the top.

The DAC3 and DA10 comparison reminds me faintly of the difference between the original Spendor S3/5 speaker vs. the newer Spendor S3/5se. The former added an appealing sheen to the music, while the latter has a more forward mid-to-upper midrange and a rolled-off top end. Meeting in the middle is apparently very difficult!

 

[Ruppin]

James and Edwood, thank you. Mr._Sukebe, I take exception to both your tone and your post. In fact, I do think that there could be a better DAC than the Benchmark, and if there is, I would like to try it. As James and Edwood pointed out, I am looking for information.

I have only heard the Lavry under poor listening conditions, and don't claim that it is better or worse than the Benchmark. I was just answering a question of why I bought the Benchmark. Also, for the record, I use Apple equipment and therefore don't know much about Foobar.

I admit that reputation is subjective, and I really had not intented to get into a Benchmark/Lavry argument. From what I have seen, people go either way. I am not, however, looking for a stamp of approval. Even given the well known ratio of sound improvement to additional cost, I simply want to know if the damned DAC3 sounds materially better than the $1000 DACS. Some of you may have noticed that side by side comparisons, at dealers or elsewhere, can be hard to come by. Hence one seeks information here. I would like a better DAC, but have this basic inhibition against spending money for no good reason.

With as much respect as you accorded me, Mr_Skubebe, I thought this thread was about the Bel Canto DAC3, of which we still know little. For someone who joined two months ago, and has posted all of 19 times, you seem to be willing to make some pretty strong statements. One can't help but wonder where you are coming from (which is slang for "what is your motivation here"). Also, the remark about killing my cat in a past life reflects a certain tone which I would not normally associate with "respect".