[Notred]

For what it worth, I heard european model got their volume level limited...
 
Mine is coupled with CIEM (Easonic EM4) and I am maybe not listening super loudly but I am usually set between 12 and 15 on 30

 

[uk83]

  For what it worth, I heard european model got their volume level limited...
 
Mine is coupled with CIEM (Easonic EM4) and I am maybe not listening super loudly but I am usually set between 12 and 15 on 30

 
Where did you buy yours?

 

[tassardar]

I own the ZX2. It does HiRes audio for more then 20hrs base on my looping. If you need loudness, it can run my IEM at half volume for me. Mine is a non Europe set. But note, zx2 has high standby drain. Playing music will shave maybe 4-5% (HiRes) off every hour, while standby for some reason drains around 1-2% (random mix of hires and mp3 yields around 3% per hr for me). You will still be charging the device every 2 days.

 

[uk83]

Thanks tassardar,
 
I was looking into that one (though as an option if nothing else cheaper would go), for me the whole point is to charge as little as possible. sometimes i cant charge for a week...
 
This was why i liked my E585 so much. it did maybe more than 60 hours playback. and almost no standby drainage.
also to charge it from my (5000) power bank it took less then 25%.
 
Can anyone verify that, if i would buy an NWZ-A17 in asia (i am now in singapore but on a boat) the output will be higher?
Are there A17's with a volume cap? as it seems like the european market only has the A15?
Is it possible to remove the volume cap?
 
Thanks

 

[castleofargh]

  Thanks tassardar,
 
I was looking into that one (though as an option if nothing else cheaper would go), for me the whole point is to charge as little as possible. sometimes i cant charge for a week...
 
This was why i liked my E585 so much. it did maybe more than 60 hours playback. and almost no standby drainage.
also to charge it from my (5000) power bank it took less then 25%.
 
Can anyone verify that, if i would buy an NWZ-A17 in asia (i am now in singapore but on a boat) the output will be higher?
Are there A17's with a volume cap? as it seems like the european market only has the A15?
Is it possible to remove the volume cap?
 
Thanks

the A10 series is very similar to the e585 (that I own and still enjoy from time to time). the A10 is kind of big in comparison, but oh so tiny compared to a zx2.
battery life behavior, you can expect all the same things from the A10 that you had on the e585 plus some pretense of highres, and this time it plays flac with a good handling of tags ^_^.
 
about volume cap, yes euro DAPs have one, I just can't understand why this comes up only with sony all the time. most stuff with an audio out sold in europe have that limit implemented, because as you might notice it's called a EU cap, and it's the law. it's not an sony fantasy. it has existed since the first ipods and you almost never saw anybody talking or complaining about it. but on sony DAPs hermagerd euro cap!!!! that's where you realize how people really notice only what they're told to notice.
 
it's a voltage limit, so the most unlikely need for a sensitive low impedance IEM, as most IEMs can reach 90db with less than 0.05v (and that's an actual fact).
no current limit is implemented so there is no reason for the DAP to behave any different unless of course the voltage limit implementation was done by a moron. in this instance the moron would have to be sony itself.
I'm not saying "go buy EU devices", I'm saying if you guys complain, complain right.
 
obviously if you buy a DAP outside of EU, it will not have the EU limit (captain obvious strikes again). so make sure singapore doesn't join europe in the next few days and you should be safe.

 

[JK1]

"about volume cap, yes euro DAPs have one, I just can't understand why this comes up only with sony all the time. most stuff with an audio out sold in europe have that limit implemented, because as you might notice it's called a EU cap, and it's the law. it's not an sony fantasy. it has existed since the first ipods and you almost never saw anybody talking or complaining about it. but on sony DAPs hermagerd euro cap!!!! that's where you realize how people really notice only what they're told to notice."
 
On most other DAPs though, like on the Sandisk DAPs, someone in Europe can set the region on the player to rest of the world, and circumvent the volume cap. Imo people listening to music too loudly is a problem, however the player doesn't know which headphones or earphones are connected to the player, and how efficient they are, so it can't properly assess when the music is in fact playing too loud. Imo wearing isolating earphones or headphones when it is unsafe to do so is even a greater safety concern.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/775939/unsafe-use-of-isolating-earphones-or-headphones#post_11856590

 

[castleofargh]

yeah on some old sony walkman you had a magic button combo to hit "street fighter style" to open the hidden settings and push the volume back up to the max ^_^.  but on new models, they stopped it, or maybe we just haven't found the secret code yet?

 

[Notred]

I bought mine in Australia...

 

[uk83]

 
the A10 series is very similar to the e585 (that I own and still enjoy from time to time). the A10 is kind of big in comparison, but oh so tiny compared to a zx2.
battery life behavior, you can expect all the same things from the A10 that you had on the e585 plus some pretense of highres, and this time it plays flac with a good handling of tags ^_^.
 
about volume cap, yes euro DAPs have one, I just can't understand why this comes up only with sony all the time. most stuff with an audio out sold in europe have that limit implemented, because as you might notice it's called a EU cap, and it's the law. it's not an sony fantasy. it has existed since the first ipods and you almost never saw anybody talking or complaining about it. but on sony DAPs hermagerd euro cap!!!! that's where you realize how people really notice only what they're told to notice.
 
it's a voltage limit, so the most unlikely need for a sensitive low impedance IEM, as most IEMs can reach 90db with less than 0.05v (and that's an actual fact).
no current limit is implemented so there is no reason for the DAP to behave any different unless of course the voltage limit implementation was done by a moron. in this instance the moron would have to be sony itself.
I'm not saying "go buy EU devices", I'm saying if you guys complain, complain right.
 
obviously if you buy a DAP outside of EU, it will not have the EU limit (captain obvious strikes again). so make sure singapore doesn't join europe in the next few days and you should be safe.

 
For one, There is a HUGE output difference between the A15 (bought from USA by a collegue) and my iPhone 5.
I stated in an earlier post that i listened to the USA bought one, hence the question about the Singapore situation...
It might be that they just ship the same model to USA and UK?
Anyway, whether anyone wants/needs the output is personal, I'd say. In my opinion, if the the output is there, I should be allowed to choose to use it. 
But more importantly I also travel with a battery powered speaker, which would be nice if it could be driven to its full potential.
Anyway, I Thank you for your input and i hope I helped you understand why ppl can have issues with this volume cap, and again, believe it or not. The IEM's I've tried A/B'ing between iPhone 5 (european) an A15 (USA). the iPhone 5 could make my ears hurt and the A15 was loud at full volume, but in case of say classical music, or being in an airplane, or both.... or just a slightly lower volume recording... they'd not quite be there...
 
Also, I've read some ppl having installed different regions of firmware onto older models... Anyone heard of this with the A15/17. or better yet. have any experience with it?

 

[uk83]

Just came off the phone with customer support sony UK. and they claim that there's no difference in volume output between europe and anywhere else.
 
The only difference would be the notification about hearing loss.
 
Has anyone ever actually used devices from both regions, and can verify the volume difference? 
If there is a volume difference I will buy one in singapore (if I get a chance) or buy one from ebay Hong Kong for example.
 
I might either way and be the test rabbit...

 

[irrefleumas]

Its been a topic for a while in A15 thread. Confirmed as well the euro version has volume caps.

 

[castleofargh]

and a quick googling tells you the sony non EU outputs about 0.5V while an iphone 5 goes close to 1V. and voila. 20log(1/0.5)=6.02db louder for the iphone.
that has nothing to do with the volume cap, all sony DAPs are weak as hell they have always been since the flash memory ones. and they usually are given for a power output below 20mw into 32ohm.
 
now the UK hotline(we all know those guys are experts who enjoy a bad salary because they want to help people on the phone...) say what they say. there is at least one guy on the A10's topic who claimed to have both versions and that the euro one had to be pushed like 2 or 3 volume steps higher to sound as loud. so one at least is liar.
 
doing my own not precise at all measure, I get 0.30v into 10kohm on my euro version. taking headphoniaks.com's 600ohm as reference for the xduoo X2, sansa clip, and fiio X1, that I also have, my readings always end up within 0.03v of what they have for all those DAPs.  only their japanese A10 shows 0.568v into 600ohm when I get 0.3v into my 10kohm. could be that the sony collapses into my 10kohm(unlikely, usually DAPs suffer from low impedance not from high), or could be that there really is another 5db down on the EU version. 
 
side note, a powered speaker doesn't care about the source having enough power or not, the only question will be if it has enough gain to be loud enough for you. something you can now estimate with your iphone 5 as a reference.
but there is something that I believe needs to be said: you can't have a small, long lasting source, also with high power. the energy has to come from somewhere and batteries are what they are. if it's super small, it doesn't have much.

 

[uk83]

Castleofarg.
 
First,
Your response is much appreciated, and helpfull.
I did see the 0.5V vs 1.0V before, my thoughts don't make 6.02db into that right away though
Also I feel a UK hotline guy is more likely to be oblivious than a head-fi-er to be a liar.
I see that I might seem pushy or wanting to much, but I've heard the A15, I owned a E585 and, if the're volume could go 2-3 steps further that would make it the perfect device for me .
All this info has made me hopeful, and also, as I'm in the progress of buying FA-4E XB which are supposed to be a bit more sensitive. I'm confident I'll make enough use out of it.
I'll order one from Hong Kong or Russia, if i dont get the chance to buy it straight from singapore. And if I get to compare again. I'll tell you guys my findings.
 
Further, to everyone
Once again. I truly appreciate your inputs. I do not have an excessive amount to spend on these things, so im just trying to get it right this time.
 
And apologies if I asked pre-answered questions. I have made many searches on this forum, but its very big, and I cant read it all

 

[tassardar]

Regarding volume, I can say the Sony are really weak. Their full is like ak 65/75. Really weak that even plugging it into the amp sometime I must jump gain to be loud enough for some iem.

Power and battery don't go together. But if you are driving iems, a non Europe version should be plenty loud and last twice to 3 times versus competing players except a few maybe Cowon j3