Balanced vs. ?

[geek707]

I like your avatar picture BTW. I suspect I'm one of the 10s of people who actually paid to see Le Mans in a theater.

 

[gregorio]

More gibberish…

Indeed, so why do you keep posting gibberish?

If I’m running a Schiit Jotunheim 2 w/the 3’ish watts at SE, and 6’ish watts at balanced, then turning up the volume at SE is not going to increase the watts beyond what it is rated.

Exactly, well done, more gibberish and nonsense!

If the max output of the amp is 2w, then you can’t turn up the volume because it’s already at max volume. However, as nearly all HPs only need a few milli-watts or a few hundred in extreme cases, you can just volume match because contrary to your false assertion, the volume control DOES change the power output.

But regardless, if you do need 6w for some reason, then it’s nonsense to buy an amp with 2w max, buy an amp with the appropriate power output, at least 10w.

How all of that isn’t obvious must be one of those audiophile mysteries!?

Or people having first hands experience with systems providing both SE and BAL output and making own judgment on what sounds better?

That’s effectively what he said, people having first hand experience of both SE and BAL making their own judgement biased by marketing.

G

 

[Andrew_WOT]

It's typically around 3db better dynamic range for properly designed full balanced circuit, input to output.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Your question about the connectors has been answered but what you are maybe missing is the point above, that virtually all HPs are balanced anyway, even with an unbalanced signal/cable

I would say no, that's not correct:

1. many headphones have a crossover ground wire rather than a split cable with two wires
2. most of the headphones that do have a split cable still have common ground

Can many headphones be converted to balanced with the right amp and cable? Yes, if they have dual-entry cables. But that's not the same as all headphones being balanced as sold.

 

[gregorio]

It's typically around 3db better dynamic range for properly designed full balanced circuit, input to output.

With a balanced microphone, mic cable and preamp, it’s typically a lot more than that but with a HP amp, short cable and HPs, it’s typically slightly lower dynamic range because you have double the number of amps driving the signal, so twice as much noise and distortion but none of the benefits of CMR because the HPs do that anyway with an unbalanced signal. Again though, it won’t be audibly worse.

Can many headphones be converted to balanced with the right amp and cable? Yes …

No, because you can’t convert something to balanced that’s already balanced. Virtually all HP drivers operate from the voltage difference between the unbalanced signal and ground. Any noise/distortion picked up in the cable is therefore cancelled out (Common Mode Rejection, CMR), the exact same thing differential (balanced) signalling is doing. The only advantage of a balanced/differential signalling in this scenario is that the difference is double that of the unbalanced signal but then so is the amp noise/distortion and again, you don’t get the benefit of CMR because the HP driver is doing that anyway with an unbalanced signal.

G

Edit: Actually there can be a tiny advantage with crosstalk too (with a balanced signal going to headphones), again inaudible though.

 

[Dogmatrix]

Indeed, so why do you keep posting gibberish?

Exactly, well done, more gibberish and nonsense!

If the max output of the amp is 2w, then you can’t turn up the volume because it’s already at max volume. However, as nearly all HPs only need a few milli-watts or a few hundred in extreme cases, you can just volume match because contrary to your false assertion, the volume control DOES change the power output.

But regardless, if you do need 6w for some reason, then it’s nonsense to buy an amp with 2w max, buy an amp with the appropriate power output, at least 10w.

How all of that isn’t obvious must be one of those audiophile mysteries!?


That’s effectively what he said, people having first hand experience of both SE and BAL making their own judgement biased by marketing.

G

I think they are speaking to the myth that somehow excess power in an amp is beneficial so even if only 1W is required 10W is better

 

[bigshot]

Some people believe more is always better.

 

[gregorio]

I think they are speaking to the myth that somehow excess power in an amp is beneficial so even if only 1W is required 10W is better

That’s not entirely a myth, you generally want some headroom with an amp because the noise/distortion the amp produces usually ramps up significantly as you approach it’s max output. Running an amp no higher than around 60% - 70% of max is the usual rule of thumb but there’s no benefit from running lower than that.

G

 

[bigshot]

I don't think that's what he's talking about. There's a contingent in audiophilia that thinks you need the generators from Hoover Dam to run a pair of earbuds. Too much is never enough.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

That’s not entirely a myth, you generally want some headroom with an amp because the noise/distortion the amp produces usually ramps up significantly as you approach it’s max output. Running an amp no higher than around 60% - 70% of max is the usual rule of thumb but there’s no benefit from running lower than that.

G

Not only that, but transients often require magnitudes more power than the steady state signal. An amp with a big power supply that can supply a lot of voltage or current fast (depending on the load) can really help with music with a lot of dynamic range.

 

[Dogmatrix]

Not only that, but transients often require magnitudes more power than the steady state signal. An amp with a big power supply that can supply a lot of voltage or current fast (depending on the load) can really help with music with a lot of dynamic range.

Perhaps this is the root of the myth of power
While it is true many amps both transistor and tube utilise high current internally to satisfy operating parameters of gain section these are necessarily isolated from the output

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Perhaps this is the root of the myth of power
While it is true many amps both transistor and tube utilise high current internally to satisfy operating parameters of gain section these are necessarily isolated from the output

Nobody is running their headphones off the PSU, that's true. But the output stage is only as good as the PSU. So no, I couldn't disagree more

 

[Dogmatrix]

Nobody is running their headphones off the PSU, that's true. But the output stage is only as good as the PSU. So no, I couldn't disagree more

By that logic wouldn't all mains voltage powered amps here in Aus where we have 240v 10Amp supply be 2400 W amps

 

[gimmeheadroom]

By that logic wouldn't all mains voltage powered amps here in Aus where we have 240v 10Amp supply be 2400 W amps

No, that's not what I said.

 

[Dogmatrix]

No, that's not what I said.

So if we cant conflate the input on the power supply with output how can we conflate internal power rails etc with output
Example Phonitors famous 120v rails not 120v output