Balanced output - implications of cable on ?
Nov 18, 2018 at 1:34 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 4

zambie

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Hi All,
I've got a slightly peculiar setup that I'm working on building (and it's not a headphone setup, it's a speaker setup at home, so please bear with me). It's for my home speakers.

Source > Onkyo DP-X1 DAP
Tube Amp > Gemtube BL-02
Spekaers > Martin Logan XT60s
Intend to send my music from it to a Tube Amp using the balanced output to the AUX inputs of the tube amp
Output from Tube-amp into Matrin Logan XT60s

Can you advise me on how I can use the Onkyo's balanced output to feed the tube and retain the balanced signal? If I got a balanced cable (2.5mm to RCA) - would that work?
A bit out of my depth here - so any advice/ insight would be really appreciated!!
 
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Nov 20, 2018 at 1:17 AM Post #2 of 4
Hi @zambie,

May I ask why you're using a balanced out if the AUX in on your tube amp is single ended, when you can just use the regular 3.5 out?
The basic answer to your question is yes.
2.5 mm to RCA will work as long as the cable is soldered correctly though given the signal is technically unbalanced in output, there will be no obvious difference in sound quality.
Otherwise, if not soldered correctly, sound output will just be heard on the left channel at the very least or at worse, short something in your system.
All a balanced signal really does is make the audio signal stronger in the audio chain.
This does not necessarily mean better but then this is a highly subjective & hotly debated topic for various reasons.
Ordinarily, say balanced out (doesn't matter what size) to IEM/headphone may 'sound better' by being louder & perception bias usually plays a part in fooling the brain on precieving other nuances like 'greater clarity', etc...
This generally only means more power to 'drive' whatever is the output for less actual volume though impedence, sensitivity & tuning all play a part in overall sound.
In this case, given your output is a tube amp with no balanced input, the signal will still be converted to single ended or unbalanced which unless you already have a 2.5 to RCA on hand, just go with a 3.5 to RCA, save any over thinking.
At 4 ohms, your speakers (not bad, by the way) will be easy to 'drive' regardless as very few speakers go below 4 ohms, especially floorstanders but that's another story...
Anyway, most tube amps are more powerful than people think so while the specs for the gemtune don't seem to exist any more, can't confirm how many watts your tube amp puts out but going by the tube it's at least 5 watts per tube (for the EL34 which are the driver tubes) which is plenty of power regardless to power the signal.

So in closing, just use the 3.5 to RCA & you will be good to go.

Hope you have a great day !
 
Nov 22, 2018 at 4:27 PM Post #3 of 4
Hi @PaganDL ...
Appreciate the insight here - you succinctly explained the foundational concepts that has taken me a better part of the past week to wrap my head around - so a big big thank you for that! Agreed - balanced 2.5mm to RCA not really worth it especially in light of the fact that my amp will not be providing a balanced output - I guess I was just trying to identify possible benefits of feeding a stronger signal to the amp. I've gone ahead and bought myself a good 3.5mm to RCA chord. Just completed the setup last night and thus far am quite impressed with the output.
My living / listening room is at about 20x10 (so not very big by any stretch), and haven't been able to dial the amp beyond 12 o'clock (half way through) ... it's got a beautiful quality especially for organic instruments (cellos, acoustic guitars, pianos) as well as vocals. To be honest - I think something in my setup is struggling with metal music (not popping - guitars are shining through though), but live performances and good quality recordings are absolutely shining through.
Any good resources you recommend me to study regarding tube amps/ tubes and their characteristic in general?
 
Nov 24, 2018 at 8:45 AM Post #4 of 4
Hi @PaganDL ...
Appreciate the insight here - you succinctly explained the foundational concepts that has taken me a better part of the past week to wrap my head around - so a big big thank you for that! Agreed - balanced 2.5mm to RCA not really worth it especially in light of the fact that my amp will not be providing a balanced output - I guess I was just trying to identify possible benefits of feeding a stronger signal to the amp. I've gone ahead and bought myself a good 3.5mm to RCA chord. Just completed the setup last night and thus far am quite impressed with the output.
My living / listening room is at about 20x10 (so not very big by any stretch), and haven't been able to dial the amp beyond 12 o'clock (half way through) ... it's got a beautiful quality especially for organic instruments (cellos, acoustic guitars, pianos) as well as vocals. To be honest - I think something in my setup is struggling with metal music (not popping - guitars are shining through though), but live performances and good quality recordings are absolutely shining through.
Any good resources you recommend me to study regarding tube amps/ tubes and their characteristic in general?

Hi @zambie,

No problem, happy to help, I will leave you with one general tip, think of electricity as similar to how water flows & water pressure then a lot of electrical concepts & theory will make more sense as electricity always seek to find balance with itself & its surroudings.
Hope this makes sense.

If you provide more info on your audio setup, I should be able to help you troubleshoot, so let me know though explain what you mean by 'not popping'.

Regarding tubes, basically it comes down to experience, researching how tubes interact with electricity, each other & amp circuits in general & lots of demos...
Can't stress the last part enough.
The best way to think of tubes are much like old school incandescent light bulbs but with dimmable switches & in some cases more fragile & sensitive, depending on type, circuit, etc...
Good books exist on tubes though more often than not, they are hard to find & pricey & in some cases, incomplete as they do not always list the tube variants &/or equivalents.

The best way to understand tube characteristics is knowing what kind of sound you like & finding tubes which suit your tastes.
Many charts & descriptions exist on tube characteristics, just search the net, more than happy to help verify any you come across.
These are usually numbered on a 1 to 10 Scale for easy reference where characteristics are concerned.
Positives to look for in tube characteristics as a start, are warmth (the sound tone & feeling you may experience when listening to tubes) & low noise &/or microphonics (ringing noise)
For warmth, you want an average of 6 by most chart standards though this is average personal preference, subjectively & personally, I myself prefer average 8.
If noise &/or microphonics are higher than a 6, it can potentially be annoying & in general, detract from the listening experience especially at low volume &/or quiet sounds.
There are some who like high gain which is both a good & bad thing as some tubes pick up noise really easily & if a tube has high gain & high noise, it can be almost unlistenable unless someone is after that characteristic (these people exist) or the amp has well designed circuits which can compansate for this.

There are many good tube amps out there which are inexpensive & able to be tube rolled (changed) much like one would change a headphone/IEM cable, ear pads or ear tips though unlike the other things, is not usually necessary, just a matter of taste.
The most common misconception are tube amps or at least tube rolling on its own are expensive & a waste of time, this is largely untrue, as there are good tubes which cost any where from a few dollars to $ 50 +
The tubes most who usually have no idea about & say tubes are expensive are the 300 variants in particular, the 300 B series.
Like all audio gear, there are tube amps for every level & you will find something which will suit your needs.
Most good, affordable tubes used in decent tube amps, use some 6N variant, eg 6NP, 6AK (Chinese origin loosely based on old Soviet & Eastern European) or any 8 Series, eg EC 8822, EL 83 or 84, etc

Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on point of view, I have not tried many 'popular' (eg, usually the super cheap ones on Amazon) tube amps so I am no judge of many of those.
When I first started learning about tube amps & tubes in general, a lot of it was quite expensive for no reason & not easy to get where I was.
That was many years ago & things have changed significantly & there are now so many options.
I have a few I use (refer to my profile) & many others I have tried so it won't be hard to recommend some if you tell me your budget.

Hope you have a great day !
 

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