[yotacowboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Knight /img/forum/go_quote.gif I laughed a lot.

wait a minute, isn't this the forum where we're supposed to reject anything that just sounds better sans "objective" proof?

I'm glad sarcasm isn't lost here...

 

[grawk]

There's no shortage of objective examples of the benefits of balanced drive for headphones.

 

[yotacowboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif There's no shortage of objective examples of the benefits of balanced drive for headphones.

again, it was only a joke!

goodness this place is dry.

 

[Steve999]

I wonder too.

Has anyone got any proof of claims of better performance? Any data? Any s/n ratio numbers? Distortion measurements? Effects on frequency response?

If not, maybe there's a reason why not.

I'm genuinely curious.

I would think mainly it could help keep noise out of a system. I think balanced connections are used in pro audio between components where conditions might be less than ideal--long runs, lots of electrical connections in the area, etc. If noise is not a problem in the system I wonder what the benefit could be. I don't understand why a balanced amp-to-headphone connection would be beneficial.

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm skeptical!

 

[grawk]

Again, lots of data to back it up, do searches. The point in balanced headphones (or push/pull amplification) isn't the noise reduction, it's that both + and - are actively driven. You get twice the voltage swing and twice the slew rate.

 

[cotdt]

A lot of misinformation here.

There's no such thing as balanced headphones. Dual mono headphones are required for balanced amplifiers. Balanced amplifiers have theoretical, measurable, and audible advantages over unbalanced. I remember there were some threads that went into a lot of detail on the specifics, so you can do a search to find out more.

I do hope that people stop using the word "single-ended" to describe unbalanced, as it leads to a lot of confusion. Single-ended refers to an amplifier topology, specifically regarding the output stage. All amplifiers are either single-ended or push-pull, with the vast majority of amplifiers being push-pull.

 

[wavoman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cotdt /img/forum/go_quote.gif A lot of misinformation here. There's no such thing as balanced headphones. Dual mono headphones are required for balanced amplifiers...

Wouldn't most audio engineering pros call these "dual channel headphones with balanced input (on each channel)" ?? After all, it's not just the amp that is balanced, the output from the amp (the input to the phones) is balanced, with + and -.

In other words, "balanced headphones" as made popular by HeadRoom is just a short-hand way of saying "headphones that take balanced input from balanced amps". And of course they are dual channel, so they can be used for two mono channels or one stereo channel, all balanced. Pro grear is usually labeled Channel A and B, not L and R, exactly to make this distinction.

We always wire our speakers with + and -, never floating a hot over ground, so why shouldn't we do the same for the little gem speakers we put in cups and attach directly to our ears?

Seems obvious, and the SQ improvements are audible, not subtle. My hearing is not the best, but I made this conclusion 45 minutes after my official start in this hobby at CanJam. At both HeadRoom and RSA you could listen both unbalanced and balanced to the same source, amp (had both output types), and HP model (had both bal and unbal on hand). The source was balanced in all cases, which would reduce the difference -- but it was still there.

 

[cotdt]

Yeah good points wavoman, I guess it all comes down to semantics.

 

[Audio-Omega]

So my current setup is unbalanced. It seems like there is no other choice other than to go balanced if one keeps upgrading.

 

[grawk]

No, you can go as high as you'd like without going balanced. Going balanced is just one pathway.

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif No, you can go as high as you'd like without going balanced. Going balanced is just one pathway.

You can go high!
But you sadly can't wander into the world of electrostatic headphones...

 

[Audio-Omega]

I used to have a Stax SR-001 mk2 system.

 

[b0dhi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve999 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wonder too. Has anyone got any proof of claims of better performance? Any data? Any s/n ratio numbers? Distortion measurements? Effects on frequency response?

Cool_Torpedo got some measurements done on a HD600 a few months back. It showed that balanced drive flattened out some non-linearities (especially mid-range recession) by as much as 4dB. And this test was properly done unlike so many balanced-vs-unbalanced comparisons which compare different headphone units side-by-side. I can't remember the threat title atm but a bit of searching should dig it up.

 

[El_Doug]

slew rate is also measurably improved - ill try to find the source for that as well

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Doug /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...what you call a "charming clink," i call an "annoying noise that also means two awkward connectors instead of one simple one, which also makes it hard to pack the cables in a headphone box"

4-pin FTW. 1 plug, balanced drive to the cans. You know you love it.
Quote:

Originally Posted by cotdt /img/forum/go_quote.gif A lot of misinformation here. There's no such thing as balanced headphones. Dual mono headphones are required for balanced amplifiers.

I dont own any headphones in which the drivers can not be electrically isolated from each other, do you? Maybe some cables need work, but its not difficult.

What about drivers that unconditionally require balanced drive? There are a couple...

misinformation indeed.
Quote:

I do hope that people stop using the word "single-ended" to describe unbalanced, as it leads to a lot of confusion. Single-ended refers to an amplifier topology, specifically regarding the output stage. All amplifiers are either single-ended or push-pull, with the vast majority of amplifiers being push-pull.

I would say that single ended can apply to either a "proper" single ended topology with 1 active component handling signal per stage driving one end of the load with the other grounded OR to a push-pull topology which is driving only one end of the load with the other grounded.

"unbanalced" shares the "not" prefix with inadequate, unacceptable, and inappropriate (amongst others). Notice how many negative words start with the "not/non" prefixes... how many positive connotations asscociate with these prefixes? You may find a couple, but the majority imply that you should rather be something else.... It sure makes for good marketing hype though. It makes me unhappy that my amp has only unbalanced inputs, I need balanced!
Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif No, you can go as high as you'd like without going balanced. Going balanced is just one pathway.

QFT!