Bad experience with pure silver cables for HD650...
May 11, 2012 at 9:49 AM Post #16 of 50
I have a DIY pure silver (Neotech) cable for HD650. The sound is cleaner with less bass. If you want to experiment
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you could try Mundorf Silver-Gold wire, it's said to have good bass.
 
May 11, 2012 at 10:41 AM Post #17 of 50
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So far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, the stock HD650, HD600 and HD580 cables are 100% identical (except the HD650 cable is terminated with a 6.3mm plug instead of 3.5mm). 

 
It was already stated, but no, the HD600 and HD580 come with the worst imaginable cable this side of AKG.  Some HD650's were sold with that dainty little thing too.  The normal HD650 cable (and the one sold as replacement for HD600/580) is much thicker.  It's one of the nicer stock cables around in terms of build quality, but it's still the tangled mess that most major mfr stock cables are.  HiFiMan can include a nice bit of in-wall, 4-conductor, pro-audio, name-brand Japanese mic cable in the box of a $400 headphone, and Sennheiser still includes that generic thing in the box with $500 headphones.  It's kind of depressing.
 
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Better save money and get yourself a pair of D5000 or D7000 if you want keep enjoying HD650s comfort but if you don't mind much more heavier you can try HE-400 if it's a good pairing with your gear

 
Sage advice.  I love the HD650 dearly, and I'm thrilled to finally have it back up and running, I really missed it while it was gone.  But the HD650s are not, and never will be, bass intensive or treble sparkly cans.  It's not what they're supposed to be, they're mid-centric relaxing, easy-going cans that still retain a lot of detail.  It may be time to spend that cable money on a second pair of cans that compliment the 650's for the times when you want lots of bass.
 
The Denons are truly excellent at that, as are HE-400 if you'd rather have something that's a little more in the "balanced, warm, dark" vibe, but that extends more evenly in both directions. Denons are great for the "wow" factor of ultra sparkly highs and ultra low lows.
 
In my own personal experience I recently revisited the cable experience since I was testing my new HD650 drivers.  I rigged up my old broken Cardas which managed to not throw a fit (if I wiggle it enough it still works, the other day I didn't een have to wiggle it.)  I somehow missed the improvement last time around, but I'm now a cable believer.  There's a definite difference.  It's subtle, but it's there.  But it isn't magically adding frequencies, but it changes the attack of frequencies.  Think of cables as mild tuning, not equalization/tone-control.  It's the last bit of adjustment after you've already got the rest of your system just how you want it.  At a cost of about $20 per .05% of difference.
 
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I build the dang things and I will tell you no cable will just magically add a whole bunch of one thing. The differences are subtle if that.
 
If you don't like the bass levels on the HD650, you have a pretty decent budget to play musical chairs with other headphones. DT990 comes into mind for sure, then Ultrasone-something-something. 
 
Chris no have a lot of experience with Ultrasone =(
 
*manly tears*

 
If only certain other cable vendors were as direct about what cables do and don't do
wink.gif

 
Quote:
I have a DIY pure silver (Neotech) cable for HD650. The sound is cleaner with less bass. If you want to experiment
normal_smile%20.gif
you could try Mundorf Silver-Gold wire, it's said to have good bass.

 
Sounds about par with all I've heard about silver, and why I still hesitate to actually jump into silver.  I get what silver does, and I'm not entirely convinced I'd entirely want it to do that
smile_phones.gif

 
May 11, 2012 at 11:09 AM Post #18 of 50
You could use copper wire. It does bring out the bass a bit more.
 
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May 12, 2012 at 9:28 AM Post #19 of 50
To bass boost using a cable, if thats your aim, then evidently you want "coloring" the sound (cables won't do that). As everyone here mentioned, better get one of the Denon's if you miss the bass + sub-bass, and I recommend it. I was never a fan of the HD650, especially of the bass and its energy was bleak in comparison with my other phones, even HD800.
 
May 12, 2012 at 3:56 PM Post #20 of 50
Quote:
 
It was already stated, but no, the HD600 and HD580 come with the worst imaginable cable this side of AKG.  Some HD650's were sold with that dainty little thing too.  The normal HD650 cable (and the one sold as replacement for HD600/580) is much thicker.  It's one of the nicer stock cables around in terms of build quality, but it's still the tangled mess that most major mfr stock cables are.  HiFiMan can include a nice bit of in-wall, 4-conductor, pro-audio, name-brand Japanese mic cable in the box of a $400 headphone, and Sennheiser still includes that generic thing in the box with $500 headphones.  It's kind of depressing.

 
Are you comparing the amount of copper now, or the amount of insulation around it? Four-conductor is just adding more copper (which these days is crazy expensive) and weight to do nothing seeing as how two of those are connected to eachother.
 
(And as far as manufacturer stock cables go-- look at beyer. Theirs are wonderful.)
 
May 12, 2012 at 4:58 PM Post #21 of 50
So from what I can gather in this thread, people that spend hundreds of £ and $ on a cable are pretty much wasting their money? I've never bought aftermarket cables because they're too expensive, I'm not as hardcore an audiophile as others, :p and I never really believed they would do much except empty the wallet. But maybe I misunderstood? My replacement cables for my HD580 has the quarter inch jack and I didn't order a quarter inch to 3.5mm adaptor, but I have one now. My cable is definitely thicker with bigger terminal housings, much better than the 580 cable. 
 
As far as bass in concerned, I'd love to hear some other headphones, as the only quality headphones I've ever had and heard are my Senn HD580. But I can't imagine ever needing more bass, these deliver in bucketloads. Not that I listen to metal or much rock, but the music I do listen to has tons of extremely punchy and resonant bass, and sub bass notes comes through very well too.
 
May 12, 2012 at 6:00 PM Post #22 of 50
 
 
 
 
Quote:
 
Sage advice.  I love the HD650 dearly, and I'm thrilled to finally have it back up and running, I really missed it while it was gone.  But the HD650s are not, and never will be, bass intensive or treble sparkly cans.  It's not what they're supposed to be, they're mid-centric relaxing, easy-going cans that still retain a lot of detail.  It may be time to spend that cable money on a second pair of cans that compliment the 650's for the times when you want lots of bass.
 
The Denons are truly excellent at that, as are HE-400 if you'd rather have something that's a little more in the "balanced, warm, dark" vibe, but that extends more evenly in both directions. Denons are great for the "wow" factor of ultra sparkly highs and ultra low lows.
 
In my own personal experience I recently revisited the cable experience since I was testing my new HD650 drivers.  I rigged up my old broken Cardas which managed to not throw a fit (if I wiggle it enough it still works, the other day I didn't een have to wiggle it.)  I somehow missed the improvement last time around, but I'm now a cable believer.  There's a definite difference.  It's subtle, but it's there.  But it isn't magically adding frequencies, but it changes the attack of frequencies.  Think of cables as mild tuning, not equalization/tone-control.  It's the last bit of adjustment after you've already got the rest of your system just how you want it.  At a cost of about $20 per .05% of difference.

I do really like HD650 and for me they have enough mids and highs ON MY SETUP but not enough bass and BASS is what OP is looking for. I DO BELIEVE in cables that's why i got one but cable only can refine what is already there but not add extra so my advice IS first to get headphones which have HIGH QUALITY BASS with his setup and only then look for replacement cable.
I tried HD650 with E11 and heard noticeable BASS improvement but still HD650 were not on par with HE-400, D5000 D7000 and i'm talking about BASS only. As i said before i would rather spend money on headphones which will be a good match with my gear than spend money on AMP or other gear to make existing headphones sound right. Until i got HE-400 i had no idea what i was missing all this time so i started looking for headphones which can give me what i'm missing and still have what i was enjoying with HD650 or improve it and D7000 do exactly that for me while i still interested in MarkL mods and pads.I'm enjoying my D7000 with existing gear while you spend extra money to get additional AMP to enjoy your D5000
 
 
May 12, 2012 at 6:13 PM Post #23 of 50
My HD650 really came alive with lots of powerfull bass impact(always depending on the recording)after I went balanced.Night/day experience on my system!
 
May 12, 2012 at 6:52 PM Post #24 of 50
OP here, thanks for the wise advices everyone, I was interested in D5000/7000 but was put off by the strange construction, leather earpad (which I just hate in hot season) I am a sebum skinhead...
I know since two days that one of my HD650 driver is damaged and it surely is reducing the deep bass quality. Overall for the money I am impressed with this headphones it has all I want basically, but I miss the sub 50/60Hz information which I enjoy in my loudspeaker setup. It is hair splitting because with the EQ I have all the bass I want with this pair of cans but without EQ there are just not enough bass.
 
Ultimately I have yet to hear a HD800 in situ, I would love to know how it behaves in my setup. Everyone say HD650 is bassier but I suspect they are just "boomier". Maybe HD800 are more extended and less 100Hz heavy, but too pricey to buy new and sell used for me to really know for sure at home.
 
Firstly I need to resolve the broken driver, they are still under waranty, and only then I will consider spending either for a new pair or doing the cable jeopardy.
 
A friend just got SR225i so when he's coming back from abroad will test it with my OTL as I really don't know if they match if at all. As for the Beyer, Denon and Hifiman they are still a bit pricey for the moment but will give them a try as soon as funds allow.
 
Not enough bad comments about switching cables, I was hoping for more! I have a soldering iron so making a cable is only DIY for me, I don't see myself paying someone to solder two connectors and a wire.
 
Also I agree that the senns cable are a shame, they are just too light for this expensive headphones but I guess at the current rate of workmanship, a handmade cable is even too costly for the 300€ HD650. While the HD800 cable looks very nice in fact, aesthically at least.
 
May 12, 2012 at 7:13 PM Post #25 of 50
Quote:
I have a DIY pure silver (Neotech) cable for HD650. The sound is cleaner with less bass. If you want to experiment
normal_smile%20.gif
you could try Mundorf Silver-Gold wire, it's said to have good bass.

 
Hmm, my vendor has the Mundorf silver gold in 0,5mm diameter for 18€ per meter!!! So for a 3 meter cable I would need twelve time this amount, that's crazy!
 
May 13, 2012 at 8:25 PM Post #26 of 50
Quote:
So from what I can gather in this thread, people that spend hundreds of £ and $ on a cable are pretty much wasting their money? I've never bought aftermarket cables because they're too expensive, I'm not as hardcore an audiophile as others, :p and I never really believed they would do much except empty the wallet. But maybe I misunderstood? My replacement cables for my HD580 has the quarter inch jack and I didn't order a quarter inch to 3.5mm adaptor, but I have one now. My cable is definitely thicker with bigger terminal housings, much better than the 580 cable. 

 
Yes, they are. There is no measureable difference in sound between two non-defect cables. Any perceived difference is just that: perceived. It goes away once the listener does not know he's using the expensive cables.
 
 
Hell, even us who buy stock replacement cables where needed are wasting our money-- those things are usually crazy expensive!
 
May 13, 2012 at 11:18 PM Post #27 of 50
Quote:
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So from what I can gather in this thread, people that spend hundreds of £ and $ on a cable are pretty much wasting their money? I've never bought aftermarket cables because they're too expensive, I'm not as hardcore an audiophile as others, :p and I never really believed they would do much except empty the wallet. But maybe I misunderstood? My replacement cables for my HD580 has the quarter inch jack and I didn't order a quarter inch to 3.5mm adaptor, but I have one now. My cable is definitely thicker with bigger terminal housings, much better than the 580 cable. 

 
Yes, they are. There is no measureable difference in sound between two non-defect cables. Any perceived difference is just that: perceived. It goes away once the listener does not know he's using the expensive cables.
 
 
Hell, even us who buy stock replacement cables where needed are wasting our money-- those things are usually crazy expensive!

 
I wish that were the case. Some time ago people like yourself convinced me there was no difference and it was all in my mind. So, I put the stock cables back on my HD-800s and the result was awful. I do think the differences are far less than some people make them out to be and some people do go crazy, but while they don't significantly change the sound (I don't recall anyone actually going about measuring headphone cables with serious equipment), sometimes it is just that subtle adjustment people are after.
 
May 14, 2012 at 3:03 AM Post #28 of 50
One thing I have on my mind :
I do believe in loudspeaker cable being crucial meaning less is more. In that view, HP are mini loudspeaker right?! So HP cable must matter!!!?? That is uber logical to me!
Also there is no need of balanced power amp to loudspeaker cabling, so why is there such a hype in balanced HP amp for HP!???
 
May 14, 2012 at 4:44 AM Post #29 of 50
I've not noticed any difference between speaker or headphone cables, balanced and unbalanced have the same SQ as well. IMO, it's just people getting carried away, no harm.
 

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