[music_man]

as usual i agree austin. the only thing i can see that i can improve now is going to lan. the lanrover is the best option but don't want to spend $600 than a grand on a cable. i know you wil say but i have all these cables i can afford. i said they were engineering samples given to me by others in the music industry. i did not pay a cent for maybe i have 300 grand of cables lol. you aproached this with audiophile components. maybe better i don't know. often audiophile components can be found on the industrial side too. as for the qx-5 i plugged it in the same cable setup. it did not change at all because it does not use bus power. bus power imo is crippling the codex. if you remove it/clean it plus clean the data it will unleash it imo. the data also suffers on the codex. not on the qx-5. the qx-5 is at a price people will expect it to work without playing these games. it is no doubt a better product overall but the codex i feel is at least on par as a balanced dac at this point. which is astonishing because the codex has a older noiser dac and overall not as good electronics. it just sounds really good to me this way. i have a bit of a feeling yours sounds even better. remember though my whole system is powered by filtered batteries. online ups. the ax-5 is small enough to do that. some 1000 watt mcintosh mono's no way lol. as for the ground i broke it at the computer and it works fine. power up/down many cycles to test. break it after the power(hub) you have problems. obviously with dc you need + and - for a signal. it does not have to originate from the pc though. just as long as it gets power. i unplug the power to the hub, the music stops and the codex reads usb. so i know i broke the connection at the pc. well, i cut the wires so of course.
 
i do not know about that psu above and if it would improve things or if the next step is to go lan. i think wireless is probably pretty bad but don't know. i will go cat6. as i also said a standard cat6 cable is probably better than the aq diamond usb. the aq diamond cat5 is probably the cats pajamas. usb is just not good at transferring data. this is in fact data not audio. improve the data transmission we improve the audio. i need to know about that psu before i go buy the rest of the parts to try it. not sure if it will get better. will be cheaper than lan. the old rs psu is very robust and super quiet. i measured it once dc to daylight and not a lot of noise anywhere we would be hearing it. just by memory it is better than the ifi wallwart. there are always some on ebay. i just pulled up a few. like $12-$18. i am saying startech because they are the only hubs with a full size b jack. not all of them. i am guessing the one that steps down from 12v is very quiet but i do not know about this psu brick. someone mentioned in diy somewhere wallwarts from a decade ago were mostly no good. mostly. that rs is from the 80's and is superb you can tell by the size for only 800ma it is not average. the codex only needs like 3ma to handshake. do not plug anything else in this hub or you will pollute it!
 
austin, we had different approaches but it would be interesting for us to hear each others results. unfortunately i am guessing i am nowhere near you. middle of nowhere wisconsin. 1/2 hour car ride to first business of any kind. this was my dream after chicago for 40+ years. you can imagine why. i am sure you watch the news about chicago. lucky i lived quite frankly. .
 
if anyone can tel me about that psu it would be much appreciated. want to try it but don't even know if it is any good. the old rs made a much quieter background. why did they have to use the xmos board? it is like a hog tie to this thing. i will go read that robi. perhaps next step is just lan. dang that cable is $$$.

 

[music_man]

robi, i see you cut ground and vbus as did i. i thought the codex has gi? why do the cheaper startech usb-cat5-6 extenders suck? at that price i would be hard pressed not to try the ps audio. unless i understand this correctly you are plugging usb sicks in the other ports? if so i do not see how that can transfer anything. i see you are using a bjc cable. not sure if usb with the aq diamond is as good. a stock cat6 cable should be better than any usb cable but the diamond cat5 should be far superior. you have a very nice setup. are you using a codex? i do not know what all the other stuff is. rex,lex etc. i figure just go pc>dragontail>aq jb with pins cut>1.5m diamond usb to startech extender>diamond cat5 to other extender>1.5m diamond usb to codex with linear psu's on the extenders? what is all this other stuff. sorry i have not been keeping up with this at all. plus isn't it best to add as little to the signal chain as possible? it seems you do know about psu's. could you please tell me about the one i have in mind? is it smps or linear, well built? I can use those to power all these little black boxes i am going to have. unless those old rs wallwarts(if you can cal them that) are better which is very possible. there were a few times long ago that rs made some very hq things. furthermore, could you please outline your entire usb signal chain to me if you do not mind?
 
i see there are no cheaper usb over ethernet devices. i see one box deals. i assume that is to send usb to ethernet but not receive usb on the other end? plus they only use bus power which is exactly what we don't want. i have no doubt ehternet sounds better.
 
soon i will go that route. should have to begin with. it should be no secret ethernet is better at transffering data. this is data after all. when the data is better the audio is better. that is pretty simple. i am sure some would dispute that but i will just write them off as not knowing  aheap of beans. austin, is this what you are doing as well or are you using usb for the full run?
 
i cut the cables in the dragontail. cannot figure out how to open the jb,duh? then how actual;ly wil we provide gi?
 
for right now all i can do is upgrade the usb hub. which would involve that psu i do not know the specs on. it will only make a difference if that psu is better than the old rs one. it says lps on it but i do not know if that means linear power supply. honestly that is all i can do at the moment. it is only worth it if that psu is indeed better.
 
sorry for so many questions. this is like the first time here i am lost lol. right now i can do is looking at betering the hub revolving around the quality of that psu. if it is better, it should still make an incremental difference but not like going usb over ethernet. at this point i already have the usb better than the toslink. a couple of days ago i was floored how much better the toslink was! now all music will come from the pc. in fact the meridian $$$ spinner uses a dvd rom drive. read to memory makes a huge difference. pc will do the same. putting music on usb sticks is a great idea if i read that right. i just do not understand this entire signal chain. austin and robi you have very complex setups. i would honestly think less is more but apparently not in this case.

 

[robi20064]

I'm afraid it wasn't me but the other Rob (rb2013) in the uber-usb thread He has done quite some mods on his current chain, feel free to PM him, he is a very friendly person.

 

[music_man]

oh i thought that was you lol. i figured it all out though. he went through several brands of usb extenders over ethernet. he is not using them all at the same time, duh. that is where it got confusing for me. i was like why does have all this redundant stuff. in fact he doe snot. like i said, add as little to the signal chain as possible. less is more. usb over ethernet is most certainly the way to go. as i keep saying the cheapest cat6 cable sis better than the best usb cable. obviously he figured this out as well. 15' vs. hundreds of feet should tell us something right there. much more intact signal without dropouts etc. it is sent a spackets which is the technology that is making the big deal for us. i just can't do it right now. i am wondering if going to the other hub with the psu will make any difference. i think honestly, i have gotten all i can out of usb at this point so quit there. the trick was cutting the vbus and ground. the diamond cables are very nice but i had to provide clean power tot he codex and not fill it full of pollution. that was the whole thing cutting the pc's power. it is stupid of ayure because many people would not think of/ do that. he cut it as well. it sounded good but that simple step was like night and day. like austin said it just keeps getting better. i am sure going to ethernet is another huge leap. i feel this can actually surpass it's big brother. in fact it already has a slight edge. with ethernet it might simply be beter but not sure because then the game changes. the qx-5 twenty has an ethernet port! so it can speak native ethernet without conversion going on. at the point the qx-5 may walk away from the codex again. it is fun to compare but i mean no insult or bragging. the qx-5 twenty remains the nicer device as it should. in it's own sake the codex just seems to scale higher and higher. i am not even at the point others like austin are at yet. with better cables i guess the sky is the limit. this thing does not seem to hit a brick wall where other sub 2 grand dacs quickly do. using only with ax-5 twenty no phones but i do have some balanced ones here. just cutting those wires offered a completely different and much more pleasing sound. pretty amazing. i have to poo poo ayre though for using the vbus xmos board. there was no reason for them to do that. yes, it was built to a price but only a few bucks more would have done it justice big time. i cannot wait to get ethernet.

 

[robi20064]

Yes, he has experience with almost all the known DDCs from the past years. After that he turned to AOIP than got back to USB with the mixture of ethernet using one of those StarTech USB over gigabit LAN extenders + LPS for all components + Singxer F-1 + storing music on a SLC type USB flash. He strongly beleives the result is very analog-ish for him. I admit it sounds a bit complicated, but the biggest leap is probably the StarTech in that chain.

 

[music_man]

i agree. ethernet is going to make a nice difference. as for the psu, that is switching and junk compared to the old rs linear regulated unit. high speed noise. strange it has the letters lps on it. it was not hard to research that. so i guess i have gone as far as i can go with usb. i will be looking forward to ethernet. for that price i will probably go with the ps audio. i am currently floored with the sound. getting better will put it somewhere i cannot even think of. already i will put this up against all comers. it is just a shame they did not make it this way out of the box. i am not being an idiot, it actually sounds that good. i imagine the diamond usb and anaconda VX, odin 2 ic's help a little

 

[robi20064]

Not about to convince you otherwise, but actually the LANrover is the most expensive out of the StarTech/Icron/PS Audio pack - and you cannot take advantage of storing music on additional USB due to having only one port.
 
StarTech:
 
https://www.ballicom.co.uk/usb2g4lext2-startech-com-4-port-usb-2-0-over-lan-.p1009343.html
 
Icron:
 
https://www.icronshop.com/icron-brand/icron-ranger-2304ge-lan
 
Both are 4 port editions.

 

[music_man]

okay then, cdw has a good price on the startech. they should give me an even beter price as i am a good customer. i guess i will just get that. i do not understand how you access the thumb drives though?
 
also i realized cutting the ground does in fact cause problems. just cut/tape the +5v. that is if anyone sticks with usb. ethernet is vastly superior. especially for my long run.
 
Edit: that's it though? just run it over ethernet. they do not need to be special audiophile devices? perhaps not as this is data. data is the it world's forte. not audiophiles. so i imagine as you say it is as good or superior. just run it over ethernet and boom, the best sound you can obtain in that data format. i would supose that is true. plus the extra ports. i would probably power it with a good psu not the one that comes with the startech. not sure about that either though. do we need a audiophile cat6 cable? sure, there is the aq diamond but a stock ethernet cable should be better than any usb cable. i am repeating myself, sorryt. i imagine you can up the ante with the cable but the switch to ethernet should be pretty big as is.
 
now i have a problem. just wrecked a dragontail and jitterbug. that thing is glued shut. my hub works without power applied. for now, how do i know it disconnects the pc's +5v when the external psu is connected and does not just boost it. there has to be some easier way to cut the +5v line. i tried tape but it moved upon insertion. any ideas how to do that without hacking a cable? or to figure out if the hub disconnects it? that is for right now. i will get ethernet soon. i will call cdw tomorrow. if my sales rep makes me a great deal i will just take it. right now i ned to disconnect the +5v without cutting anything with my fudge fingers. i shorted the darn thing. was working wonderfully up until them. the difference was huge. i can only imagine the leap to ethernet. i do not think one needs all this extra stuff though. jitterbug, startech set psu and cables. i figure that is it. as i also mentioned it is best to keep the signal chain as simple as possible imo. maybe not even use the jitterbug anymore. i can try cutting in the hub but rather not wreck that as well. i imagine the 12v hub is not connected but those high frequency smps suck. a good smps can be fine in fact but not those little boxes. just have to figure out how to break the connection while not breaking the whole thing!

 

[cygnusx]

Honestly, I have no other references to compare, but since my Aurender N100H, already has a very clean USB out with linear power, I feel like I'm not running into the same issues noted with PC based music servers.  Maybe, I'm already getting pretty clean sound of the Aurender, none of the isolators or AQ Jitterbug seems to improve the same sound for me.   So far, the best bang for buck as been replacing the USB cable itself with a higher grade cable.  Anybody have experience with using an Aurender to the Codex? 

 

[music_man]

you are correct about that. have aurender too. get this. i have no idea how but the codex is currently running with no bus power! the cable is cut on the +5v and there is no external power of any sort. i was absolutely sure before it required bus power. maybe i did all this for nothing and cutting the cable was just placebo lol. i swear it sounds 100% better. i noticed this when i unplugged power from a hub that had the +5v cut. it kept running,stopped and started. did not lose sync. strange. it must be, the qb-9 did not need it neither does the qx-5. perhaps no departure there after all. i swore i did this before and it stopped, reading simply usb on the display instead of 44. got me.

 

[austinpop]

you are correct about that. have aurender too. get this. i have no idea how but the codex is currently running with no bus power! the cable is cut on the +5v and there is no external power of any sort. i was absolutely sure before it required bus power. maybe i did all this for nothing and cutting the cable was just placebo lol. i swear it sounds 100% better. i noticed this when i unplugged power from a hub that had the +5v cut. it kept running,stopped and started. did not lose sync. strange. it must be, the qb-9 did not need it neither does the qx-5. perhaps no departure there after all. i swore i did this before and it stopped, reading simply usb on the display instead of 44. got me.

The Codex needs USB 5v and ground. I've verified it does not work without it. Alex and Ariel from Ayre - yes all Ayre employees have first names that begin with A - have confirmed this for me.

Not sure what you experienced.

 

[music_man]

i know, alex did for me too. it did before. something is not right. i have no idea. that is why i was upset with ayre before because +5v was a let down. there is some reason it is working sans power if so but who knows. i am probably getting power somewhere and did not realize it. i am done fiddling with it tonight though. ill figure it out tomorrow. time to listen!

 

[music_man]

a bug was itching me and not a jitterbug lol. i got up and investigated. i was indeed powering it. it will not run without power as we all know. however i recommend to cut the +5vusb but not the ground. I had cut the ground in a jitterbug and the jitterbug ultimately fried. luckily not the codex. you could try cutting the ground on the cable but i am not. the ground is a good thing imo. it is a drain wire in the wrapping of the cable. the codex may require it even with external power. it is not a ground in the usual sense but a drain wire. at the least you may suffer interference with the codex if you cut it. now it is cut for sure. no power, no go. power, music. that rs psu is much better than a laptop high frequency smps. too heavy for socket on the ups. so i used a custom 8" extension cable i had. not an iec cable. all works fine.

 

[music_man]

I am not entirely sure aiop is beter. you are sending packet data rather than real time data. that is why it can run so far. great for people that want pc in another room. i am not sure it is an improvement for audio vs. usb. you can get these things for $20 to try. just not powered but hub can power. has anyone else used this besides rob in the other thread? i would honestly now after thinking about it think it sounds worse not better. you are chopping the data into slices rather than streaming it. that may or may not sound better i don't know. i am kind of guessing it sounds worse. gives you long range. if rob is satisfied great but i would like to hear from more people that they felt this sounded superior to a usb>usb run. i add that there is so much stuff in his signal chain it may be placebo. it is best to keep a signal chain as simple as possible. constantly adding more devices to "enhance" the sound shall in miost cases degrade it. i am going to try a very simple aoip but am not expecting much. i also do not expect the starttech rex/lex to sound any better. in it's simplest format i do not know how it wil sound yet. adding 20 things to the chain is really just rather tweak than listen. doubtfull all that sounds any better. not sure about aiop but will find out. however it will be a much simpler run. even if all that did in fact sound better i am not interested in all of that. i would like to hear from anyone else that is running aiop with an async dac. not calling the guy out. let him have his fun. perhaps what he is notcing is beter is the usb thumb drives. audio data outside the pc is better. it would be interesting if it is that and not the ethernet. i just do not see ethernet working wish a async dac. perhaps his is not either. if you are streaming live content only way outside a pc is a audioserver. which incidentally as mentoned here by someone else receives no benefits from usb tweaks. it is fine on usb. the culprit is the pc not really the transmission protocol. i am now having my doubts about aoip other then to put the pc in another room. packet data as opposed to real time are not realy interchangeable formats. the xmos receiver does not expect that. it handles it because it is changing it back to usb. there is also conversion going on right there. it is not native to the xmos board. still, i will try this. people just jumped on because of ps audio i imagine. there is so much audio voodoo to be had. you all know this. if you are one who subscribes to it all being improvements that is fine. i will judge for myself. again, the main benefit is very long runs. otherwise i see a detraction, not a benefit. furthermore now i se he does not even call this aoip anymore but rather usb over ethernet. if it sounds better to him great. i will be the judge as to whether it sounds better to myself. also of note is that ps audio includes a psu that is not at all fit for the job. of course does startech but it is not an audio product. how stupid to put the noisy powere right back on the line! i wonder if rob is using the stock startech psu. if so he is kidding himself.
 
okay, i have tried usb over ethernet. cannot even get it to communicate with jriver at this point. requires drivers and does not work with everything. this was really meant for pc>pc communication, print servers and not all dacs will function with it. i do not know if rob was using a codex.
 
wanted to ad: if you are cleaning the usb that is all you need to do. you do not need to clean any other part of the pc, including broadband which is a misnomer. much more noise is coming from psu,gpu,cpu and fans if any. laptops have very noisy psu's. try to run it on battery for audio. which ddly enough is the best power source. my entire pc and stereo run on batteries, online ups. broadband is not polluting my usb because i cut the +5v and have chokes on the data. cleaning anything else is just redundant. to each their own.
 
ethernet would not work with codex. worked with msb go figure. has ethernet anyways. so could just cut out that middleman. on the msb i thought it sounded worse on the msb. think about it. converting usb to ethernet and back to usb. two incomparable formats. too much conversion going on. if rob likes it great. others did not like the ps audio unit. i got the startech. did anyone else actually try this and have it working with positive results on the codex?
sorry for such long post. i edited as i went along as not to hijack the thread.
 
one more thing. if it works with your dac. you can use a switch/router at the pc to a ethernet/usb adapter. much cheaper and imo nicer. alas, ethernet seems not to jive with the codex. changing data format back and forth. obviously does not like it.

 

[robi20064]

There is a very long thread on AOIP with multiple people using Focusrite Rednet devices and claiming there is a big difference compared to standard USB. This was Rob's previous approach before he went back to maximize on the StarTech/USB hybrid.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/806827/audio-over-ip-rednet-3-16-review-aes67-sets-a-new-standard-for-computer-audio