[Paranoid Android]

So I got my AV-710 in the mail today, which I ordered because some people said it would improve the way my MS-1's sound. So I installed it, followed the guide (WinXP, 1.43 drivers), etc. etc. and.. well there are quite a few problems. First of all everything just sounds flat. Natural sound is one thing, but when everything sounds as if it's coming from your stock TV speakers it's completely different. Not to mention there is some horrible horrible clipping whenever a song's volume goes above 'barely audible'.

This was not the case with my Audigy 2, and while the bass was a bit lacking then (something I found surprising for headphones that came so well reccomended for rock), the mids and highs seemed to make up for it. I blamed it on a bad source and recording quality but even now, with the AV-710 that was supposed to show at least an improvement, so far I notice no redeeming qualities so I have no choice but to think there is something seriously wrong with my setup. Other than bad configuration, I've been suspecting that my MS-1's were damaged by my Audigy 2 (I've read that this can happen in another topic, something about running them directly out of the card without an amp), so that might be the case as well.

So, fellow audiophile mentors, lend me your experience and tell me what's wrong with this picture.

 

[sugarkang]

do you have an amp?
if not, that's why.

 

[Paranoid Android]

No, I don't have an amp but I've been told the AV-710 can power most headphones without much trouble.

 

[Mr.Radar]

The AV-710 is a line-out only which means only the easiest to drive headphones (like the Koss PortaPro) will sound good through it. My DT440's (32-ohms) sound bassless and lifeless without an amp on the AV-710. You Audigy has an op-amp on the front speaker output which means that it can drive headphones properly (or at least try to) which is why it sounds better.

 

[Paranoid Android]

*sigh*

So I should just uninstall the AV-710 for now until I get an amp? What kind of an improvement can I expect with the amp over my Audigy?

It just seems like I keep spending and spending but not actually getting much of an improvement..

EDIT: And do you think there is any chance that my headphones are damaged? I've heard the argument about whether or not Audigies actually damage the headphones but I'm not sure if that's the case.

Also, when I can't seem to play music in Winamp at all anymore as it doesn't recognize the sound card. Any way to fix that?

 

[NeilPeart]

First of all have you enabled the high-quality output and are using the correct output jack (the one right next to the optical output)? Are you using ASIO4ALL to bypass the kmixer? Are you using foobar or winamp and if so, which plug-ins are you enabling (in_mpeg123, ASIO, etc.)? If all these settings are correct have you also tried resampling to 96KHz (improvement is subjective, of course)? The AV-710 is much better than the Audigy2 (any variant) IMO, but part of that improvement is in its more neutral, un-hyped presentation. You may have simply grown accustomed to the A2's flavor and need some time to adjust or you simply may prefer such a sound (which is just fine - different strokes for different folks). I personally prefer the AV-710 any day to the A2, but I am simply one set of ears. The MS-1 should not require an amp for satisfactory sound out of the AV-710, but once you are content with your source’s sound then you may want to invest in a starter amp (and then an external DAC, and then a better amp, and then the PS-1… j/k

). Before you throw money at the problem ensure that you have the best possible settings and give the new card some time to burn-in (but most importantly, your brain requires time to adjust to a new flavor).

 

[commando]

I would think it's unlikely that any sound card will damange headphones.

I use the green port, not the one next to the optical out, and I don't use high sample rate. I don't upsample in foobar either. When I added an amp (PPA w/ diamond buffer), the A900s sounded quite a lot better. To my ears the AV710 sounds better than the $250 AOS DAC I shelled out for.

 

[Paranoid Android]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilPeart First of all have you enabled the high-quality output and are using the correct output jack (the one right next to the optical output)? Are you using ASIO4ALL to bypass the kmixer? Are you using foobar or winamp and if so, which plug-ins are you enabling (in_mpeg123, ASIO, etc.)? If all these settings are correct have you also tried resampling to 96KHz (improvement is subjective, of course)? The AV-710 is much better than the Audigy2 (any variant) IMO, but part of that improvement is in its more neutral, un-hyped presentation.

As I said, I am using all the plug-ins, the correct input, etcetera. I am using foobar because WinAmp doesn't seem to recognize the soundcard. And I'm all for neutral sound but do me a favor and turn on your TV, just make sure it's not connected to some 3000 dollar home theater system. Now turn on a channel that plays music videos. If this is neutral, un-hyped presentation to you guys, I guess I should be heading back to my Audigy.

EDIT: When I don't use the high sample rate the quality is worse but at least the clipping seems to be gone. And any idea as to why Winamp fails to recognize the sound card? I like it a lot better than foobar and would appreciate if I could go back to it soon.

 

[Mr.Radar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by commando I would think it's unlikely that any sound card will damange headphones. I use the green port, not the one next to the optical out, and I don't use high sample rate. I don't upsample in foobar either. When I added an amp (PPA w/ diamond buffer), the A900s sounded quite a lot better. To my ears the AV710 sounds better than the $250 AOS DAC I shelled out for.

You really should try the high sample rate mode. It's much better. The green jack uses the craptacular onboard-audio quality Via 1616 DAC and not the good Wolfson one.

 

[commando]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Radar You really should try the high sample rate mode. It's much better. The green jack uses the craptacular onboard-audio quality Via 1616 DAC and not the good Wolfson one.

I enabled high sample rate, stopped and started my song in foobar, and all I got from the bottom socket (closest to the optical out) was static. Is there anything else I have to do? I'm not resampling in foobar or anything.

 

[Mr.Radar]

If you're using Kernel Streaming with Foobar resampling/upsampling to 96000 Hz and 24-bit padded to 32-bit is required.

 

[Paranoid Android]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Radar If you're using Kernel Streaming with Foobar resampling/upsampling to 96000 Hz and 24-bit padded to 32-bit is required.

Yeah, I'm doing all that too. Anything else that could cause the lack of good sound?

 

[commando]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Radar If you're using Kernel Streaming with Foobar resampling/upsampling to 96000 Hz and 24-bit padded to 32-bit is required.

All I get is static still. Kernel streaming doesn't seem to work, and changing back to wave out requires a reboot for some strange reason.

 

[comabereni]

Quote:

Originally Posted by commando All I get is static still. Kernel streaming doesn't seem to work, and changing back to wave out requires a reboot for some strange reason.

Kernel streaming won't work on with my AV710 unless I load "Resampler (SSRC)" under the DSP manager and set the target sample rate under the Resampler window to 48000 Hz. Anything above that and I get error messages and no sound.

Also, my MS1's plugged directly into the AV710 achieve nothing spectacular by way of volume or sound. An inexpensive amp like a Headsave Go-Vibe (only mentioning this particular amp because I had two) makes all the difference.

Make sure you are using the black jack next to the optical out (superior DAC) after turning on "Enable High - Sample Rate (96Hz)" and "Enable Digital Output" under the Digital Out tab on Audio Deck (per Mr. Radar's setup instructions).

_________________________

Edit: If you are describing hiss-like static like a television makes with no signal, that happened to me once and I chased the problem down to the AV710 itself. A reboot took care of it--music followed. Perhaps this is a driver or system issue of some kind?

 

[ducducpham]

Not to worry fellow head-fier. I just brought AV-710 today. Followed the instruction, got totally confused, scratch my head, put my brain on power, then i got it work. Foobar and winamp(especially) gave me this horrible clipping. In the end, i fixed it. Let just say the sound never have been sweeter to my ears. Just dont give up hope, test out every alternative. Now, I dont remember how i got foobar to work on kernel and winamp to work on asio. If you get clippings after you instealled ASIO4all, it might be that the driver to say winamp could be the wrong one. Mess up the asio4all configuration and see if clipping stops