[dlorde]

...As I understand it, their aim is to make all headphones sound the same to all listeners (since you can't separate the listener's and the headphone's defects with this method).

So, what is their opinion on how a headphone should sound?

Audussey, and the likes, are "just" trying to make the frequency response as flat as possible. Not easy to achieve, but at least a clear enough target. Now, we all know flat headphones sound horrible, so what are they aiming for?

As I understand it, their aim is not to do with making headphones all sound the same, but to effectively restore the full range of sensitivity to your hearing by compensating for hearing variation (typically loss) at various frequencies. You will then, in principle, be listening with ideal (golden?) ears, so you should be able to hear the differences between different headphones more clearly than ever. 

 

[castleofargh]

yeah, it does feel like an EQ that will replace my good amp by some crap. is the impedance output and the max power output mentioned? because it looks to me like one of those stuff that will not be good for hard to drive stuff, but also not good for most multi BA IEMs (yeah I'm such an optimistic person ^_^).
oh well, if it helps a few dudes understand what a good EQ can do, I guess it's a positive influence.

 

[arnyk]

  As I understand it, their aim is not to do with making headphones all sound the same, but to effectively restore the full range of sensitivity to your hearing by compensating for hearing variation (typically loss) at various frequencies. You will then, in principle, be listening with ideal (golden?) ears, so you should be able to hear the differences between different headphones more clearly than ever. 

 
I believe that it is well documented that Audyssey is equalizing to some non-flat predetermined "House curve".

 

[comrade_ix]

 As I understand it, their aim is not to do with making headphones all sound the same, but to effectively restore the full range of sensitivity to your hearing by compensating for hearing variation (typically loss) at various frequencies. You will then, in principle, be listening with ideal (golden?) ears, so you should be able to hear the differences between different headphones more clearly than ever. 

 
I believe that it is well documented that Audyssey is equalizing to some non-flat predetermined "House curve".

Yes, I believe you are quite right. Sorry for my sloppy wording.

What I meant to say was: with unknown, uncalibrated headphones, the software has no way to separate the defects of your hearing from the tuning of your headphones. The result is, all headphones will be equalized to sound the same, that is according to some chosen target response.

I asked them about this, and they agreed and told me that is the reason why they also sell their own headphones where the frequency response is known. The setup should be made with these headphones, so that only the hearing defects are corrected. Then you can use any headphones you like. Reasonable enough.

 

[alwi]

Hi,
You are misunderstanding me - I do not want another hardware device! I do not listen to music with my phone. I want an app to use on my PC, which analyses my hearing and outputs music tailored to my ears through my PC headphones.
 
I may be interested in a hardware device if it works for free air audio (i.e. through hifi loudspeakers).
 
Here is the reply I received today (from paul@aumeoaudio.com):
 
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Thank you for your question!  No Aumeo doesn't need to be hardware if it's only for PC or Mac. You are right that we can write a desktop utility that runs in the background to modify all audio within the desktop system. We really want to do that!  It's just a question of priority - most people care first about mobile platforms and second desktop ones. 
 
On phone OS (iOS and Android), apps don't enjoy the same level of access as desktop apps. We can't write an app that modifies how other apps behave. That's why we have to make a hardware to basically intercept or hijack the audio outside the phone. 
 
Trust me we didn't want to do hardware. It's a major pain in the neck!  We tried to go to market since late 2012 and after many failures we've come to the conclusion that we have to start with mobile and we have to produce a hardware. We could be wrong, but I sure hope not!
 
Regarding protecting IP, even hardware is easy to copy. We already have patents granted in the U.S., Korea, Taiwan and South Africa, and we are patent pending in EU and China. 
 
It's simply market economics that we are doing desktop after mobile. If all you care is PC desktop I think it's not a bad thing to wait and see. We will get to do the desktop app eventually (we are a small team of about 10 ppl). I hope sooner rather than later!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
So they do intend to do it - and I will definitely buy that.
 
Alan

 

[arnyk]

  Hi,
You are misunderstanding me - I do not want another hardware device! I do not listen to music with my phone. I want an app to use on my PC, which analyses my hearing and outputs music tailored to my ears through my PC headphones.
 
I may be interested in a hardware device if it works for free air audio (i.e. through hifi loudspeakers).

 
If you want a good equalizer for your PC, obtain Equalizer APO and PEACE the parametric equalizer, both freeware. Run well under Windows 7 and up.
 
However, then you still have to figure out for yourself how to adjust the equalizer for yourself.
 
If you want a similar device that works for hifi systems with speakers, you already have Audyssey, MCACC, YPAO and number of others.
 
But, they are also locked into new hardware.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  As I understand it, their aim is not to do with making headphones all sound the same, but to effectively restore the full range of sensitivity to your hearing by compensating for hearing variation (typically loss) at various frequencies. You will then, in principle, be listening with ideal (golden?) ears, so you should be able to hear the differences between different headphones more clearly than ever. 

 

What isn't clear though is exactly how their system takes into account one's hearing. If they're playing a bunch of test tones and then you manually adjust each of what looks to be preset bands until they all sound like they're the same volume, then it might better off (and cheaper) to just do the same test with even more test tones (free tone generators are easy enough to find with Google) on more frequencies, then use a more precise EQ - like the 4-band parametric on NeutronMP - to get the proper center frequency and Q-factor. It might have less bands, but you can more precisely target which ones are the most problematic.

Of course, it doesn't come with the hardware to enable its use on other devices, but if you use the Android or iOS device as a music server, then Neutron will apply that EQ curve to whatever you play off your library. I mean, if you'll go through the trouble for "hi-fi," then might as well have an archive of your music in lossless.

 

[dlorde]

 

What isn't clear though is exactly 

how

 their system takes into account one's hearing. If they're playing a bunch of test tones and then you manually adjust each of what looks to be preset bands until they all sound like they're the same volume, then it might better off (and cheaper) to just do the same test with even more test tones (free tone generators are easy enough to find with Google) on more frequencies, then use a more precise EQ - like the 4-band parametric on NeutronMP - to get the proper center frequency and Q-factor. It might have less bands, but you can more precisely target which ones are the most problematic.

Yes - in principle you could do it yourself - if you were confident of getting it right and are happy to be restricted to a particular app. OTOH, they claim that their measuring system does almost as well as an audiologist, and the hardware is a little more flexible than an app.  
 
I know it's a first iteration, but I'm curious to see if it works; I bought one of the original stand-alone Audyssey boxes for my hifi (it cost an arm and a leg!), and when set up carefully, it made a very significant improvement - I'd be happy if the Aumeo makes a noticeable improvement...

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Yes - in principle you could do it yourself - if you were confident of getting it right and are happy to be restricted to a particular app. OTOH, they claim that their measuring system does almost as well as an audiologist, and the hardware is a little more flexible than an app.  

 

That's what I'd like to know - how exactly does it measure? They don't explain in the product page, which is why I was hesitant to drop $99 on it. I haven't seen any post here discussing that in detail either.

 

Also it's not necessarily more flexible than an app, it depends on what else you use with either. You can use that hardware with virtually any equipment upstream, but downstream, it will have to be any headphone that it can drive; and as it is, boosting frequencies tends to run a risk of increasing distortion, and that's the most likely path people using this app will do. An app on the other hand will apply that EQ correction on whatever it sends the signal out to, so it allows using a smartphone sending a signal to a DAC that measures well which then sends out an analog signal to an amp that has very low THD while producing the power that whatever transducer hooked up to it needs.

 

[arnyk]

   

That's what I'd like to know - how exactly does it measure? They don't explain in the product page, which is why I was hesitant to drop $99 on it. I haven't seen any post here discussing that in detail either.

 

Also it's not necessarily more flexible than an app, it depends on what else you use with either. You can use that hardware with virtually any equipment upstream, but downstream, it will have to be any headphone that it can drive; and as it is, boosting frequencies tends to run a risk of increasing distortion, and that's the most likely path people using this app will do. An app on the other hand will apply that EQ correction on whatever it sends the signal out to, so it allows using a smartphone sending a signal to a DAC that measures well which then sends out an analog signal to an amp that has very low THD while producing the power that whatever transducer hooked up to it needs.

 
Since it claims equivalence with what audiologists use, it probably uses the same basic technology. It has been a long time since I visited an audiologist, so I really don't know what they do today.
 
A close  friend teaches audiology at a local university, so I should ask her or her husband the next time I see them.
 
Were is up to me, I'd probably use warble tones at spot frequencies.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
Since it claims equivalence with what audiologists use, it probably uses the same basic technology. It has been a long time since I visited an audiologist, so I really don't know what they do today.
 
A close  friend teaches audiology at a local university, so I should ask her or her husband the next time I see them.

 
Do update here when you do 

 

[arnyk]

   
Do update here when you do 

 
Likely our group's next afternoon party - around July 4th.

 

[alwi]

   
If you want a good equalizer for your PC, obtain Equalizer APO and PEACE the parametric equalizer, both freeware. Run well under Windows 7 and up.
 
However, then you still have to figure out for yourself how to adjust the equalizer for yourself.
 
If you want a similar device that works for hifi systems with speakers, you already have Audyssey, MCACC, YPAO and number of others.
 
But, they are also locked into new hardware.

 
Again, it is the analysis and tailoring for my ears that has the value to me, there are any number of equalizers out there.

 

[MashaT2281]

   

 

[MashaT2281]

  I emailed them asking why it had to be a hardware device and not a hearing profile analysis and music playback app and have not received a reply yet....

 
Did you ever get a reply? I know they've been very responsive on their Indiegogo page. The CEO usually replies himself, and when he's busy, his staff handles the queries -- and even then he reads and eventually replies. So if you didn't hear back, try again -- maybe via Indiegogo, if e-mail isn't getting you an answer.

By the way, if you look at their Indiegogo discussion thread, they did explain the reason in detail -- several times. In sum, their app will only work with music/audio that is stored on one's device -- not with cloud services, streaming music services, games, other apps with audio, etc. The app limitations are due to iOS/Android developer restrictions. Even if you only listen to music that is stored on your phone, they said that with variances in mobile phone hardware/OS's (especially on Android), it won't be nearly as good of an experience. I can believe it based on my initial tests with beta versions of their app using an iPhone and Android device with the same Aumeo profile/headphones; the app improved the sound on both devices, but each device sounded different. The Aumeo hardware will account for phone variances AND will work with all of your streaming audio services, cloud services, on-board music/audio, 3rd party games and apps, etc.