[walfredo]

Apparently we don't have a W1000 appreciation thread... and so I felt I should fix this mistake.  
 
These 'phones are awesome!!
 

 
[]s
Walfredo

 

[TheMiddleSky]

W1000 is very nice headphone indeed, with the right set up it can produce one of the best (or maybe the best) vocality for headphones under $1000.
 
Sounds really beautiful through Yamamoto HA-02.
 
Compare to other brothers:
 
W1000 - W1000x - W5000 - AD1000PRM

 
 
p.s : I bet wind016 will be happy with this thread

 

[wind016]

I am definitely happy about this thread! =)
 
Unfortunately, the W1000 is not very easy to get and very easy to get a bad impression. Almost any solid state sounds too "dry" with the W1000. However, pop it in a tube amp and you'll have one of the best vocal headphones I have ever heard. Hopefully, there are other members that got to hear what these guys can really do.
 
My W1000 sounds great on my Woo Audio 6SE which rolled off the highest highs and made the mids more lush. Beautiful, intimate, and detailed mids. It sounds as if your head is in the microphone the singer is singing in. XD
 
If this was an Audio Technica woodie appreciation thread, I would probably talk on for days. =)

 

[walfredo]

Yes, I drive my W1000 with a Doge 6210 tube amp and it sounds really nice.  However, the Doge 6210 is designed for high-impedance headphones and does have a bit of noise with the efficient W1000 (I have to leave the volume nob *really* low).  I can only image how it would sound with a Woo or the Yamamoto. 

 
So, I am really curious how you guys would compare the W1000 to the W1000X and W5000.  I keep searching the threads and the opinions are all over the place.  Different people prefer one over the others.  Is it safe to say it is a matter of taste and/or set-up?
 
I'm also curious on how the W1000 compare against Audio Technica high-end open cans (AD2000, AD1000).  I had an AD700 and really like.  It is not in the same league as the W1000, of course, but it certainly has a very nice, open sound stage.  Would a AD2000, AD1000 have the same refinement of the W1000 and such openness?
 
[]s
Walfredo

 

[walfredo]

Actually, wind016 gave his take on my W1000 vs W1000X vs W5000 question a couple of days ago.  I quote:
 
 

Quote:

Actually, in the time between i posted and now, I've tried both the W5000 and the W1000X.
 
But they were short. I owned the W5000 about a week and they were not "exciting" enough for me. I only tested the W1000X for about half hour in a shop. Nowhere near the time needed to get used to the sound, but I did it anyways to get an idea of the sound.
 
I actually preferred the sound of the W1000 over the W5000. It could have to do with the tube amp that I found synergized with my W1000. The W5000 also was a terrible fit. It may have definitely been the reason for the lack of low end that I heard. Thw W5000 was just fitted way too big.
 
The W1000X, on the other hand, sounded good to me right away. The vocals were a bit laid back in comparison to W1000, but overall better than the Denon D7000. It was definitely not as bright as the W1000, the bass was tight and plenty. The Denon has slightly louder subbass, but the W1000X had more forward mids.

 

 

[pigmode]

Great thread. I have a second hand W1000 which reportedly came with about 100 (+ 20) hr on it, and a W5000 currently burning in with 12 hr total. The just barely adequate system that they are currently plugged into, consists of the original Meier Corda HA-2 and a Pioneer DV-59AVi. A Yamamoto HA-02 is due to arrive in 4-8 weeks, and a Modwright tube modded Oppo BDP-83 at the end of Dec.
 
Have also owned the ATH-W2002 and an ATH-W100.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

only ever A/Bing W1000 with AD1000PRM (which is reported sound a bit similiar to AD2000), yeah they are different, but not really much, PRM is just like open back version of W1000, so it's more airy, better staging, the mid section is not as lush as W1000 (well W1000 for mainstream song can produce too much lush for me, but I know some people will love it), also I found that PRM has better balance at treble area, so I don't need tube amp to enjoying PRM. W1000 is awesome with tube amp, but sounds a bit "weird" especially at treble section when I tried with Linearossa K3 (SS desktop amp).
 
but when paired with Yamamoto, give it songs with strong vocal, I like W1000 more than PRM, so I just think that W1000 is more "specialist" to mid/vocal section.

 

[walfredo]

Thanks for sharing your insights, TheMiddleSky.  I think I see an AD1000RPM or AD2000 in my future.
 
@pigmode: Could you share your impressions on how the different Audio Techinica woodies compare?
 
[]s
Walfredo

 

[CFabian]

I'd also be interested to hear how the W1000 differs from the W2002, as I haven't heard the W2002 yet.
 
I admit I'm still a bit curious about the famed HA-02/W1000 combo. Most folks seem to describe the HA-02 as sounding fairly neutral as far as tube amps go, so I'd like to know just how it improves upon the W1000's sound. If it smoothes out the highs a bit but preserves most of the W1000's sound characteristics I could see the combo working out pretty well. But what I'd really like to hear would be the HA-02 paired with the W11R.

 

[CFabian]

I should add that I am another one of those weirdos who prefers the W1000 to the W5000. While the W5000 is certainly more technically capable, it lacks the W1000's intimacy with vocals and sounded brighter and more colored than the W1000 when I heard them. But like wind016 I had fit issues with them and was only able to listen to them out of a sub-optimal setup. I did sense some potential and perhaps with a HA5005 and a good fit they would sound much better but that was not my experience unfortunately.

 

[pigmode]

In terms of the W2002/W100, I owned and sold both too long ago to comment on specifically. They were at the time paired nicely with an Eddie Current HD300 and a 47 Labs Shigaraki DAC/Rega Planet (transport). The AT centric system I am building up right now, is more or less being voiced on the strengths and weaknesses of that earlier experience. 
 
One thing about the "AT sound" is that its prominently forward mids can be a double edged sword, in that it can approach a slightly piercing quality depending on the system and music, and that in turn can lead to a level of fatigue. OTOH, that same midrange bloom creates a really involving sound experience.
 
As the W5000 continues to burn in, I'll throw out an anecdotal comment on my W1000. The W1000 has this compelling midrange percussive effect that adds nicely to the visceral impact of the music. A good example of this is Nora Jones' cover of Hank Williams' "Cold Cold Heart", which has a close mic-ed accompaniment of piano, acoustic bass and guitar. You can practically feel the piano notes, as well as the picking and strumming of the bass and guitar.
 
 
 
 
CFabian,
Are you sure that its the highs that get smoothed with the W1000/HA-02 combo? My developing thoughts at this point is the W1000 actually has a pretty well behaved high frequency performance, but that its the upper mids that can take on a glaring quality. YMMV. 

 

[CFabian]

You're right, it's the peakiness in the upper mids/lower treble that I found fatiguing with the W1000. This is the one thing I dislike about the W-series, all of the woodies I've tried exhibit this behavior except for the W10VTG and W10LTD (even the otherwise smooth sounding W11JPN has the same drawback). I was able to minimize this with the right tubes. I use a MG-Head OTL MkIII in Transformer mode with x1 Sylvania 5751 and x2 Mullard EL84s (both NOS) and this seems to be a very good combo with my W11R, the glare you speak of disappears while the tubes help with offering a slightly warmer presentation.

 

[pigmode]

^  Likewise, I'm pretty anxious to hear what changes the Yamamoto will have on my W1000, being that I'm pretty well impressed with it thus far. A quick comparison just now with the W5000 (@ 32 hr), shows that the latter does not have the immediacy of the W1000, as the 5000's mids are not quite as forward. I'm also discovering that the W5000 does have other virtues, and luckily I have been able to fairly easily come to a comfortable and sonically good fit, although it was touch and go for a moment.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

 
Here is simple review for W1000, W1000x, W5000 and AD1000 PRM through Yamamoto HA-02. Alvon is a person from Jaben, and all of this comparison also done at Jaben Indonesia.
 
 
 
Quote:

Hi Guys,
 
It's been a while since I wrote my last reviews. And usually I wrote reviews for headphones only. Lately I was bugged to write review about decent desktop amp. And as my usual style of writing reviews, I write review for outstanding product only.
 
A little history for Yamamoto HA-02
Yamamoto HA-02 is a desktop tube amp made by Yamamoto Japan. The designer itself is Shigeki Yamamoto (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/yamamoto4/ha02.html). It is a handcrafted unit which showcases a high quality workmanship and efforts. For me it is a beautiful amp and it matched the price tag as well.
 
In Singapore, this amp is really famous to be used as retirement amp. Which means people who buy this amp, will use this amp for their final setup. Their final setup would be the setup they enjoyed the most (most likely). That's why I was so curious about this amp as well. Is it "that good"? 
 
Items used for testing :
- Denon DCD A-500AE
- Van Den Hul "The Name" RCA
- Amphenol RCA
- Corda Stage DAC
- Corda Concerto Amp
- Yamamoto HA-02
- Rudistor NX-03
- ATH AD-1000PRM
- ATH W1000
 
Participants :
- Aud-Id Pitom (Dimas)
- Aud-Id The Middlesky (Nico)
- Aud-Id Alvon_19 (Alvon)
- Aud-Id Yudi (Yudi)
- Aud-Id Cex (Rudy)
 
Once Upon A Time in Jaben
Eventually all of us were "accidentally" had a small gath here at Jaben. It was a quiet time when TMS was busy comparing between Beyerdynamic DT440 and Alessandro MS1i. I was sharing a story about amp upgrading with cex and Pitom was busy with Yudi as well. One of my loyal cust was asking me about upgrade path from Graham Slee Solo SRG II. He was an avid fans of audiophile recording (vocal lover). 
 
So I had a crazy idea thinking that this amp is well known as a retirement amp in Singapore along with tagname as one of the most musical tube amp ever created. You guys know what I mean? Dimas smiled with his usual mischievous smile for knowing what I meant. So we both started to open the "treasure box". It was a hard work (not that hard lah....).
 
But then it would not make a fair competition if we don't compare with other amp as well. So we took out Corda Concerto and Rudistor NX03 as well. To make it short, check out the list of items used above.       
 
How does it sounds?
We used "Desperado - Malene". It is an audiophile female recording whih has its own style. The vocalist has a thick and lusty voice. A perfect combination of Susan Wong and Diana Krall in my opinion. It is not a common type of music which I used to listen to, but I enjoyed her voice a lot for sure.
 
I listened using Denon DCD A-500AE + Van Den Hul "The Name" RCA + Yamamoto HA-02 + ATH AD-1000PRM at first. The first thing I noticed is how rich, warm, perfect tone of the vocalist this combination delivered. It supposed to be how tube amp sounded, but to be honest this is the best vocality I had ever heard for such a long period of time. I forgot all the micro details and any technical aspects to notice (imaging, presentation, staging, etc) and completely indulged with the music presented. I definitely put this system as best system for vocality on my top list (I've listened thoroughly on Rudistor NX-03, Rudistor RPX-33, Rudistor RP8, Graham Slee Solo, Corda Symphony, and many more). This system allowed me to enjoy the music thoroughly and forgot all of the technical aspects. It definitely suited as as system for relaxation. 
 
To make it as a fair competition, I switched the amp to Corda Concerto. The first thing I noticed was the absence of relaxed feel and the absence of perfectly indulged feel. Suddenly I was "forced" to enjoy the music from other point of view. To notice all the technical aspect and micro details which were put together into a single music. It doesn't feel as intimate as Yamamoto anymore. Yet I can feel better speed and better clarity. 
 
Then I switched the amp to Rudistor NX03. It definitely has more speed + more dynamic than Corda Concerto, but not even close to the intimate level as offered in Yamamoto HA-02. 
 
ATH AD-1000PRM vs ATH W1000 on Yamamoto HA-02
Same song was used "Desperado - Malene". It is an audiophile female recording which has its own style. The vocalist has a thick and lusty voice. A perfect combination of Susan Wong and Diana Krall in my opinion. It is not a common type of music which I used to listen to, but I enjoyed her voice a lot for sure.
 
While AD1000PRM provided more airy feel to the sound, W1000 provide fuller + more lush vocality. But for some songs, W1000 presented the vocal with too much lush in my opinion. While some people might love this kind of sound characteristic, I enjoyed more on AD1000PRM. Definitely it gives outstanding synergy between Yamamoto HA-02 + ATH AD1000PRM. And for me, this system provides a whole new concept of relaxed sound atmosphere. 
 
I would one day put this system on my own room, to contemplate my headphone collection. And surely it would be one of the best option to be used before going to bed. It would enable me to have full relaxation and enjoy a good night sleep.
 
UPDATE : ATH W1000 vs W1000x vs W5000 vs AD1000PRM
I had been having the draft of this comparison in my head for quite some times already. 
 
Same song (Desperado - Malene) was used for the whole testing period with CDP upgrade from Denon DCD A-500AE to CEC TL51XR. Before I started for the headphone comparison, I would like to underline that the change of CDP from sub 300 USD class (Denon) vs 1K++ USD CDP brought a whole new level of listening experience. It definitely opened a new level of sound excitement. While listening on Denon seemed thick and lust with sweet midtone, changing to CEC TL51XR brought a new dimension of the song itself. I could hear more details on the song, more natural voice from the singer and better room dimension. Compared face to face, listening using Denon was like listening in a grand hall with thick curtain covering the singer, while on CEC TL51XR the curtain was gone. Source definitely an important element on the whole chain of audio system. And having an upgrade on the source component would be worth to try before doing massive tweaking on the cable units.
 
Switching from AD1000PRM to W1000, I could note that the vocality was more thick and lust. And the combination of W1000 + Yamamoto HA-02 definitely made for tubey vocal lover. It was so intimate with dark background. I couldn't help but to position myself in a grand concert hall with best damping. And vocal positioning was more backward + more relaxed compared with AD1000PRM. Switching again to W1000x, it seemed that the sparkling effect found on AD1000PRM was more obvious compared with W1000. Vocality seemed thinner but it gave better vertical space. While the soundstage presented on W1000 and W1000x were equally wide, W1000x gave better depth and vertical space. And the most important thing was the sparkles were there. It was like the perfect combination of AD1000PRM + W1000 put together. And it performed really well.
 
Then I switched to W5000, the first thing I noticed was corect tone on the drum section. The placement and imaging was much better than W1000x for sure. It was easier to "image" the whole band with this W5000. I could feel more impact with this W5000. While W1000 or W1000x seemed more polite, this W5000 had more energy to offer. Then once again I did realize my head was "nodding" following the music from Malene. I didn't get this effect from other ATH previously though. This W5000 definitely offer more enjoyable musicality than the rest of other W Series from ATH. 
 
If it was for me to choose, I would grab AD1000PRM and W1000 instead of W5000. Both AD1000PRM and W1000 were priced a bit more expensive than one W5000. But it definitely contemplate each other nicely and I prefer having these two gorgeous hanging on my headphone stands instead of one headphone. AD1000PRM for its style of airyness + details and W1000 for its unbeatable thick + lush vocality.  
 
p.s : I might have more to come on this review
 
Hope you guys enjoy my review this time.
 
Thanks
 
Alvon 
 

 

 

[wind016]

As great as the Yamamoto seems from the reviews, the experience in those reviews seem to match mine with my Woo. I wonder if getting the Yamamoto would be actually worth it seeing as it is difficult to find and not cheap. TheMiddleSky or anyone with experience with the Yamamoto please chime in. =)
 
Since I have the W11JPN and the W1000, I would agree with the brightness in lower treble for both, but somehow, I would hate to lose it. Nothing has competed with these headphones so far in vocals from what I've heard, even after trying the likes of the T1 and the HD800. Don't get me wrong, the T1 and the HD800 are excellent headphones, but the vocals just do not have the intimacy of the Audio Technica woodies. I have yet to try the T1 or HD800 on tube amps, but I suspect amping them with tubes will roll the treble off too much and give too much warmth preventing the vocals from sounding crisp. It's the overly bright character of the W1000 that I found allowed it to synergize so naturally with tubes. Made vocals sound as detailed as if on sound state, but yet full and natural from the tubes.The open design may also drag the other headphones down when comparing intimacy. The closed design of the Audio Technica woodies is such a huge factor.
 
Right now though, I'm using my W11JPNs more often. Sometimes I find the W1000 too bright for my mood, or being a hassle needing to turn on my tube amp. I'm still very happy with both and I hope Audio Technica releases a new woodie next year.