[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by millerdog Wouldn't the R10s show some reverb, they being closed cans also?

If they do, I've never heard it.

I think it's worth noting that reverb is usually used as an electronic term. Resonance may be a better description of what's going on in a closed can (and some open ones as well...see Grado). With appropriate damping, it may not occur at all, or it may be minimized. With appropriate design, it's an integral part of the design of the headphone, not just closed ones. If not carefully done, this chamber resonance can have a negative effect on the sound space...if it's done well, it can be a revelation.

 

[Blighty]

I think hirsch is right here concerning reverb. Natural reverberation exists in any enclosed environment like a concert hall for example. If the music was completely devoid of reverb, it would be akin to listening to loudspeakers in an acoustically dead room. I doubt the effect would be very pleasurable for listening purposes. Some headphones are very good at reproducing what is on the CD, while others like the W100 and the more successful, R10, attempt to recreate the performance with all its emotional energy and naturalness. Some people would call this coloured and inaccurate(relative to the recording on cd) but I feel that it is much closer to the real thing than any open headphone can come close to achieving. The problem is not solely one of controlling resonances inside the enclosure but utilizing it in such a way to recreate sound that is as close to reality as you can hope to attain in a headphone. Perhaps that is why I think closed phones like the W100 possess such great timbral accuracy, transparency and ambient detail compared with open phones like the HD600 and RS-1. It is rather unfortunate that its performance is highly inconsistent but it is still wonderful when it sounds right. I bet the R10 will be a much more consistent performer but its price is much too high for the average headphone listener. It costs as much as an entry level set of loudspeakers and is difficult to obtain outside of Japan.

 

[Tomcat]

Blighty,

that's most succinctly put! And I am saying this not just because I've read about your hobbies...

 

[The Quality Guru]

Quote:

Originally posted by Blighty I think hirsch is right here concerning reverb. Natural reverberation exists in any enclosed environment like a concert hall for example. If the music was completely devoid of reverb, it would be akin to listening to loudspeakers in an acoustically dead room. I doubt the effect would be very pleasurable for listening purposes. Some headphones are very good at reproducing what is on the CD, while others like the W100 and the more successful, R10, attempt to recreate the performance with all its emotional energy and naturalness. Some people would call this coloured and inaccurate(relative to the recording on cd) but I feel that it is much closer to the real thing than any open headphone can come close to achieving. The problem is not solely one of controlling resonances inside the enclosure but utilizing it in such a way to recreate sound that is as close to reality as you can hope to attain in a headphone. Perhaps that is why I think closed phones like the W100 possess such great timbral accuracy, transparency and ambient detail compared with open phones like the HD600 and RS-1. It is rather unfortunate that its performance is highly inconsistent but it is still wonderful when it sounds right. I bet the R10 will be a much more consistent performer but its price is much too high for the average headphone listener. It costs as much as an entry level set of loudspeakers and is difficult to obtain outside of Japan.

Yes, very well said, Blighty. And for the most part (when taking into account which type of music it is) I do agree.

Though lately, I've discovered one more caveat with the likes of the W100: precision. This headphone can be very trasparent at times, literally taking you 'there,' but at other times, in more complicated passages of acoustic music, it seems that it lacks enough *necessary* precision (i.e crispness, edge, succinctness) to wholly carry it out. And no, I'm not a precision freak, I prefer musicality over precision; though if there's clearly not enough, then, well . . .

It sometimes sounds akin to what painting a picture with a paintbrush sloppilywould look; just holding the paintbrush by near the end and, while still drawing the picture well, it just doesn't look as nice as if you has painted the picture holding the brush near the bristles. Can anyone relate to this at all, or am I loco?

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Quote:

Originally posted by Hirsch I think it's worth noting that reverb is usually used as an electronic term. Resonance may be a better description of what's going on in a closed can...

Well, physics-wise, it just doesn't make sense, but I'll stand down until I have a chance to find some corroborating evidence or explanation to the contrary. I mean, there just isn't enough room to create standing waves in a headphone, which is basically what resonance is, so the only thing that would resonate would be much higher frequencies...or maybe that's the so-called reverb...but even then, they must be using different materials and reinforcing much less of the wave than they do in speakers...or something...

I'm at work right now, so not likely that I will be able to perform this experiment this weekend.

 

[The Quality Guru]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dusty Chalk Well, physics-wise, it just doesn't make sense, but I'll stand down until I have a chance to find some corroborating evidence or explanation to the contrary. I mean, there just isn't enough room to create standing waves in a headphone, which is basically what resonance is, so the only thing that would resonate would be much higher frequencies...or maybe that's the so-called reverb...but even then, they must be using different materials and reinforcing much less of the wave than they do in speakers...or something... I'm at work right now, so not likely that I will be able to perform this experiment this weekend.

For what it's worth, I compared the RS-1 and W100 at a local Hi-Fi shop a few minutes ago. I found that the "colourations" or "reverberations" or "resonances" that I thought the W100 was fabricating were actually just a better recreation of the ambient detail on the recording; the ambient detail was on the RS-1, but simply in smaller doses. So, I'm convinced the W100's not at fault- it simply recreates the venue more effectively.

 

[Tomcat]

Hooray!

 

[The Quality Guru]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tomcat Hooray!

Hooray is right! I'm starting to learn to love these W100's again. Though the RS-1's are good too, though in a different way that I'll have to get used to when they arrive. But the W100's sometimes really just transport you to the performance like no other!

 

[taipeileviathan]

japanese cars, sushi and sukiyaki, japanese televisions, and now even japanese headphones... when will this madness stop??

perhaps the day when l'arc en ciel actually makes it big in the states...