Audio-Technica ATH-L3000 " The Legendary Leatherhead "

[BoyNamedSue]

IME, the w5000 are a very misunderstood headphone. Mahler ranking them last or near last in his battle of flagship didnt help. With the right amp pairing, they sound glorious. One of the best cans for jpop/kpop. Makes me wonder if they were tuned more for Asian audience/music. I was shocked to like them more than my w3000anv's, althought those two have different sound sig.

 

[protoss]

@Mach3

Thanks, it was an exciting journey from the humble M50x up to the HE90s. It was a blast! Almost ready to throw in the towel after obtaining and reviewing all the legendary headphones in the world
The W5000 was quite a departure from the rest of the woodies. I find it vivid, forward, bright, and bass shy. I like the W5000, but it was nowhere near the top 5 in the Woodie rank.
@BoyNamedSue is correct. I blame legendary David Mahler for the hate; he placed the W5000 dead last in his list but placed Edition 10 in the 19th spot.

If you ask legendary Tyll, he will place ED 10 dead last. So, we can easily see a preference, and everything is subjective based on your personal experience.

I do not like the fit of the W5000, but I really like the earpads of the W5000—the quality of the feel of the leather is very nice, but it was not correctly designed for the W5000. They needed Audeze type of thick pads or a rotating cup. We did not get that feature until the AWKT.
The AWKT is a better, refined version of the W5000, btw.

I never bought the W3000anv; I have heard it many times. The L3000 is more of a balance version of all the woodies. I found the W3000anv fun, dark, smooth, and warm. Pretty much all those words describe the W3000anv.
I just posted this pic of my L3000s on the Grado thread. I repost it again here
I currently own 3 L3000.

 

[Mach3]

Got to handed to you, you're collection is crazy.
You have 1 or 2 MDR-R10, 2-3 Omega
Do you have a picture that show what you have in your collection.
Why do you need 3x L3000, investment?

 

[protoss]

@Mach3
Probably for safety reason no full shots. Just scattered shots here and there and let people guess.

Why do you need 3x L3000, investment?

I didn't realize I like leather lol. I still think the W11R is better and W10VTG is more to my sound preference than the L3000.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Would concur, the W5000 doesn't at all deserve the level of hate they receive. And I would question anyone's experience in the hobby rating them as low as they were in the list questioned. They do have their quirks though, the first being fit.. it is damn near impossible for some people to get a really good fit, which does dramatically effect the sound.

And even with good fit, it is a lighter and brighter headphone.. so some just won't be into it regardless. But amazing detail, speed, airiness and clarity. I owned it a few times and it was really fun for what it was. Haven't heard it in a long time however, not sure where it would stack or rank today.

 

[Mach3]

I would agree with the fit aren't stellar with the W5000.
But get these lambskin ear pads for them and the bass magically appears, wider sound stage.
Works with most of the W series, I've got them on my W3000 also.
I'm guessing it would work with the L series too.

 

[protoss]

I'm guessing it would work with the L series too.

No, incorrect. The L3000 OG earpads are perfect, and the design of the L3000 and older woodies did not have the problems of the W5000. From W5000 onwards, the fit issues are more apparent.

The best pads for the L3000 and pre-L3000 are L3000 pads, W2002 pads, and my favorite Yaxi Earpads. The W5000 earpads on the L3000 and lower models are great too, but a bit loose.
I highly recommend Yaxi earpads for the W10VTG, W10LTD, W11JPN, W11R (the king of woodies), W100, W1000, W2002, and L3000.
https://www.yaxi.jp/product-gallery/a2000z-ad2000x/

The W5000 and above started the real serious problems of the fit issue. Even the L5000 has horrible fit issues!

W11R the king -- all I need is Yaxi

 

[mulveling]

Would concur, the W5000 doesn't at all deserve the level of hate they receive. And I would question anyone's experience in the hobby rating them as low as they were in the list questioned. They do have their quirks though, the first being fit.. it is damn near impossible for some people to get a really good fit, which does dramatically effect the sound.

And even with good fit, it is a lighter and brighter headphone.. so some just won't be into it regardless. But amazing detail, speed, airiness and clarity. I owned it a few times and it was really fun for what it was. Haven't heard it in a long time however, not sure where it would stack or rank today.

I got a W5000 from Japan right upon its initial release. Yep - the stock fit was awful; I didn't get a good seal over the top half of my ears/pads. This definitely killed the sound, making it too bright and bass anemic - borderline unlistenable. It was MUCH better if I held & pressed the cups against my ears. But (I think) I remember using W2002 pads (a bit small though) also helped a lot with no pressing required. Nice neutral, clean sound. But the whole headband / fit seemed so poorly conceived, and it turned me way off. The thin metal arc of the headband would even ring noticeably after you paused music abruptly!

Even with a pad/seal "fix", I preferred L3000 for sure. I guess you could say a "fixed" W5000 certainly sounded better than a W2002 and some of the other woodies. I don't personally get @protoss's immense love of W10Vtg. I had one and while it was certainly better sonically balanced than other woodies, it didn't seem "special" to me. Again, I vastly preferred the L3000, which was by far my favorite AT.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I got a W5000 from Japan right upon its initial release. Yep - the stock fit was awful; I didn't get a good seal over the top half of my ears/pads. This definitely killed the sound, making it too bright and bass anemic - borderline unlistenable. It was MUCH better if I held & pressed the cups against my ears. But (I think) I remember using W2002 pads (a bit small though) also helped a lot with no pressing required. Nice neutral, clean sound. But the whole headband / fit seemed so poorly conceived, and it turned me way off. The thin metal arc of the headband would even ring noticeably after you paused music abruptly!

Even with a pad/seal "fix", I preferred L3000 for sure. I guess you could say a "fixed" W5000 certainly sounded better than a W2002 and some of the other woodies. I don't personally get @protoss's immense love of W10Vtg. I had one and while it was certainly better sonically balanced than other woodies, it didn't seem "special" to me. Again, I vastly preferred the L3000, which was by far my favorite AT.

Oh yea the L3000 is wayyyy better. No question lol.

And totally hear you on the fix. My first pair the fit just worked perfectly and I just sold them randomly. Bought a second pair and it didn't fit anywhere near as well no matter what I did, definitely didn't sound as good. I don't know why they would mass produce cans with fit issues like that. I should revise my prior post to reflect how good they are with* a really good fit.

 

[mulveling]

L5000 here on generous loan for a week. The L3000 are mine, and have been a longtime favorite. Actually they were my very first "super-favorite" headphone, going back ~ 18 years ago, that got me super-addicted to this hobby!

The L3000 are a masterclass in demonstrating that relatively large amounts of distortion can still be musical IF it's the right kind (which is very hard to do). Very much like a classic tube amp. So charming!

The L5000 are technically better. More detail, cleaner bass (still nice and punchy). Lovely mids. A bit bright, but not in an offensive way that detracts from the musical flow. But in my experience, no dynamic "moving coil" headphone can compete with the technical acuity of omega-type electrostatic headphones (especially 009) when well-amped (which is admittedly very hard to do). So personally, I now look for an unquantifiable "charm factor" with dynamic headphones. The old L3000 easily makes the grade. The L5000 gets very close, but I'm not sure they do enough to make me want to buy them given the steep pricing (respecting that everyone's preferences are different). Both of these Leatherheads are more charming than the Denon D92000, which I found inoffensive while doing a lot right, but somewhat unexciting. At the end of the day I'm impressed by the L5000, but happy with my L3000. The L3000 are still one of the ultimate hard rock headphones. A polar opposite of the OG MDR-R10

The L3000 are like an "audiophile bass-head's" headphone. They have overdeveloped bass. It blooms. It will certainly measure at a high level of THD (distortion). But somehow it distorts and blooms in ways that only serves the music. I can't stand thumpy / thwacky, subwoofer-like bass. I hated the the Sony MDR-Z1R at all. I don't like the Magico A3 speakers (example of the kind of bass I don't like). I don't use a subwoofer in my 2ch. This is NOT that kind of overblown bass. It's musical and tuneful. I shouldn't be enjoying such an obvious exaggeration so much, but it gives the feeling of a REALLY good 2ch system's bass. It's kind of a magic trick. Anyways, the L5000 has a bit less bass overall, but still more than enough to satisfy. It's cleaner; fast and punchy. Hits nicely. It blooms a little, but not like the L3000. It's lovely too. Which do I prefer? If pushed, probably the L3000. I have electrostats for the super clean bass

The fit of the L5000 is a little bit off on my head. Not a very good clamp/seal near the top of my ears. The headband arc is too wide and sharply curved. Audio Technica has had this problem before, especially on the absolutely awful W5000 "Raffinato". Sometimes these esoteric Japanese builds suddenly forget how to fit an American head. The L3000 fits better. Perhaps a better fit could affect the sonic balance.

GEAR:

• Amp: Headroom Max Balanced. This amp is so overlooked, and so good.
• DAC: Phison PD2 SE v2 preamp + DAC. Phison is a small Danish high-end manufacturer that makes some seriously nice 2ch gear which still flies under the radar. The Phison absolutely spanks my Yggdrasil A2. It's significantly elevated my headphone listening experience.
• Source: Sony Walkman NW-WM1Z, USB dock, Audiophilleo 2 Mk II w/ PurePower
• Cables / Power: Audioquest Sky XLR, Audioquest Coffee USB, Audioquest NRG-1000 power cords, Audioquest Niagara 1000 conditioner

* After I gushed on the L3000's bass I should mention that perhaps the designer pushed the drivers a bit further than their capability. There were various rattle issues on some units. Having replacement drivers on hand is a huge asset.

 

[number1sixerfan]

L5000 here on generous loan for a week. The L3000 are mine, and have been a longtime favorite. Actually they were my very first "super-favorite" headphone, going back ~ 18 years ago, that got me super-addicted to this hobby!

The L3000 are a masterclass in demonstrating that relatively large amounts of distortion can still be musical IF it's the right kind (which is very hard to do). Very much like a classic tube amp. So charming!

The L5000 are technically better. More detail, cleaner bass (still nice and punchy). Lovely mids. A bit bright, but not in an offensive way that detracts from the musical flow. But in my experience, no dynamic "moving coil" headphone can compete with the technical acuity of omega-type electrostatic headphones (especially 009) when well-amped (which is admittedly very hard to do). So personally, I now look for an unquantifiable "charm factor" with dynamic headphones. The old L3000 easily makes the grade. The L5000 gets very close, but I'm not sure they do enough to make me want to buy them given the steep pricing (respecting that everyone's preferences are different). Both of these Leatherheads are more charming than the Denon D92000, which I found inoffensive while doing a lot right, but somewhat unexciting. At the end of the day I'm impressed by the L5000, but happy with my L3000. The L3000 are still one of the ultimate hard rock headphones. A polar opposite of the OG MDR-R10

The L3000 are like an "audiophile bass-head's" headphone. They have overdeveloped bass. It blooms. It will certainly measure at a high level of THD (distortion). But somehow it distorts and blooms in ways that only serves the music. I can't stand thumpy / thwacky, subwoofer-like bass. I hated the the Sony MDR-Z1R at all. I don't like the Magico A3 speakers (example of the kind of bass I don't like). I don't use a subwoofer in my 2ch. This is NOT that kind of overblown bass. It's musical and tuneful. I shouldn't be enjoying such an obvious exaggeration so much, but it gives the feeling of a REALLY good 2ch system's bass. It's kind of a magic trick. Anyways, the L5000 has a bit less bass overall, but still more than enough to satisfy. It's cleaner; fast and punchy. Hits nicely. It blooms a little, but not like the L3000. It's lovely too. Which do I prefer? If pushed, probably the L3000. I have electrostats for the super clean bass

The fit of the L5000 is a little bit off on my head. Not a very good clamp/seal near the top of my ears. The headband arc is too wide and sharply curved. Audio Technica has had this problem before, especially on the absolutely awful W5000 "Raffinato". Sometimes these esoteric Japanese builds suddenly forget how to fit an American head. The L3000 fits better. Perhaps a better fit could affect the sonic balance.

GEAR:

• Amp: Headroom Max Balanced. This amp is so overlooked, and so good.
• DAC: Phison PD2 SE v2 preamp + DAC. Phison is a small Danish high-end manufacturer that makes some seriously nice 2ch gear which still flies under the radar. The Phison absolutely spanks my Yggdrasil A2. It's significantly elevated my headphone listening experience.
• Source: Sony Walkman NW-WM1Z, USB dock, Audiophilleo 2 Mk II w/ PurePower
• Cables / Power: Audioquest Sky XLR, Audioquest Coffee USB, Audioquest NRG-1000 power cords, Audioquest Niagara 1000 conditioner

* After I gushed on the L3000's bass I should mention that perhaps the designer pushed the drivers a bit further than their capability. There were various rattle issues on some units. Having replacement drivers on hand is a huge asset.

Great read! I had a chance to buy either the L3000 for a third time or an L5000. Everything I've read mirrors your thoughts above, and that's why I made a very quick decision to take the L3000 again. I would really like to hear the L5000 however. Again, great read.

 

[protoss]

"charm factor"

I pretty much mirror word by word your views on the L5000.
L5000 is more precise, detailed, bright, and slightly bass shy compared to the L3000.
I came to the conclusion thinking, why have the exact same sound as the L3000? It is better to move on and make it a more refine headphone than anything else. And surely Audio Technica engineers were thinking like this.
I think the true “charm factor” is that it is continuing the leather series. It is currently Audio Technica statement product, not a flagship, and it is one of a kind headphone like the L3000.
I think you should get it, why? Because out of all people, you are a veteran in the L3000 space. And this headphone (L5000) is like a gift to you in a sense. I rather see a pair in your collection than a complete amateur with cash in his pocket.

Not a fan of amateurs/noobs owning legends.

 

[purk]

So precious...both the L5000 & L3000!!! I wish I still own the L3000. I only own the W3000ANV now.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I have the L3000 on right now and it's just... magical. After all these years. No other pair of headphones from around this era has held up like this for me. There's just no other sound like it.

 

[purk]

So much love for the original leather head! I sold my L3000 to one of my dearest friend and he deserves it. I need to trick him to sell them back to me one day though.

The R10 is my favorite dynamics and I am glad to have them for almost 15 years now. I adore the the D9200 tho but agree that the L5000 is a superior headphones but you need to mate it with a warmer sounding system to tame that slight brightness on the upper midrange. Bass wise, the L5000 is very solid. What I like most about the L5000 is airiness and very precise stereo image. I actually prefer the L5000 over the L3000 due to its more superior technical ability. Of course, the L3000 is so lush with bottomless bass response.