AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio

[artur9]

  You can get the much better MEIYAN 100VA Low Noise LPS for less then half.  Discrete three stage regulation - 14uv noise - very high PSRR 102dB.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131867485038?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rmvSB=true

I  am curious as to why would one want a display on such a thing?  My LPS sit in a closet...

 

[rb2013]

I  am curious as to why would one want a display on such a thing?  My LPS sit in a closet...

For me the display is immaterial. I'm more concerned by the design and noise level. I will order one, as well as the components for a DIY lps project.

 

[rb2013]

Someone directed me to another unnamed blog that has very recently 'discovered' AOIP and the Rednet stuff.

Reading for Schiits and giggles - so much bad information and really just a bunch of folks - who post as if they know what they're talking about - but declare so much bogus stuff - it's laughable.
 
I'm mentioned there and not in a good way...again I'm quoted to have said so many ridiculous things.  Anyone can read this thread to see what I've really said.
 
Just a heads-up to some that may stumble into that thread.
 
Just to set the 'Nervosa' record straight - I never recommended the AQ Diamond CAT7 cable with the Rednet gear.  On the contrary I said I could not hear a difference in different Ethernet CAT6 UTP cables - in fact I just used the supplied Rednet RED Ethernet cable.  Again - to set the record straight a CAT7 cable is shielded and would defeat the inherent Ethernet GI - so other GI devices like FMC or GISO would be needed.  Anyway $600 for an Ethernet cable?  When the BJC CAT6 550Mhz is $29, which I do recommend (for the Nervosa types).
 
Anyway - a lot of false and misleading info being propagated on AOIP out there - fortunately there is this thread to keep it all straight and correct the record.
 
I do get a chuckle watching the groping in the dark there...

 

 

[Tboooe]

  ... groping in the dark there...

 

Sounds like my love life...
 
Now a serious question...does anyone know if HQPlayer will recognize the VSC as an output device?

 

[gldgate]

  Sounds like my love life...
 
Now a serious question...does anyone know if HQPlayer will recognize the VSC as an output device?

 
Yes, there is not anything that I have tried (HQP, JRMC, Bughead, Roon) that VSC did not work with.

 

[marcblux]

Hi,

I tried the microrendu on my resolution audio cantata but after the initial good impression due to nice highs, I found that the previous chain, with the last version of pure music, the "pont neuf" usb-ethernet interface of resolution audio, and the ethernet entry of the dac, give much more body and sound is richer.
Probably the usb entry of the cantata is not very good, so I would have to buy better power supplies for the micro-rendu plus an usb-spdif converter, to compensate and possibly improve sound over the pont neuf ... Too expensive to test. Will stick to cantata & pont neuf.

I have nevertheless a second system that I need to equip with a dac. as this system is very transparent and neutral, it could benefit from a warm tonal balance, without compromising the definition.
I see 3 options :
- buy a rednet d16 and a new dac like the yggdrasil
- buy a burl d2
- wait
Will be easy to compare with the cantata a keep the best sounding for this bigger system.

How would you compare the burl and the yggdrasil ?
How complex is it to modify the burl with a better psu ? Can a standard psu be used (several voltages) ?

Also, maybe a stupid question, but is pure music compatible with the Dante virtual sound card ?

Thank you for your opinions

 

[enginedr]

Yes Pure Music works with DVSC . I use Pure Music with my RN3

 

[marcblux]

Yes Pure Music works with DVSC . I use Pure Music with my RN3

Thanks !

 

[rb2013]

Hi,

I tried the microrendu on my resolution audio cantata but after the initial good impression due to nice highs, I found that the previous chain, with the last version of pure music, the "pont neuf" usb-ethernet interface of resolution audio, and the ethernet entry of the dac, give much more body and sound is richer.
Probably the usb entry of the cantata is not very good, so I would have to buy better power supplies for the micro-rendu plus an usb-spdif converter, to compensate and possibly improve sound over the pont neuf ... Too expensive to test. Will stick to cantata & pont neuf.

I have nevertheless a second system that I need to equip with a dac. as this system is very transparent and neutral, it could benefit from a warm tonal balance, without compromising the definition.
I see 3 options :
- buy a rednet d16 and a new dac like the yggdrasil
- buy a burl d2
- wait
Will be easy to compare with the cantata a keep the best sounding for this bigger system.

How would you compare the burl and the yggdrasil ?
How complex is it to modify the burl with a better psu ? Can a standard psu be used (several voltages) ?

Also, maybe a stupid question, but is pure music compatible with the Dante virtual sound card ?

Thank you for your opinions

That Cantana is a beautiful and underrated DAC.
 
Well as for the Yggie vs the BURL.  There is really no comparison.  The modded BURL is in a whole other league -  that is fed directly by the built in DANTE card.  From a SPDIF input I would put them at a draw.  The Yggie fed by it's own builtin USB falls short.
 
I only had the Yggie for a few days to compare - and I had sold my Rednet by then.  I used my office system uber USB chain to test SPDIF to SPDIF.
 
The BURL is definitely warmer and more tube like.  The Yggie no slouch there either - but just a hint of edginess on some tracks.  Both were trounced by my heavily modded tube R2R PCM1704U-K DAC60 - again fed by SPDIF.  As for my DAC60 fed by the RN3/Mutec USB/Antelope OXCO vs the modded BURL fed by the same - I give the DAC60 & AOIP the top slot.  The natural tonal richness is supremely addictive.  The modded DAC60 is no slouch on detail, transparency and sound staging. This is with those magical 'Holy Grail' Russian '75 Reflektor SWGP silver shield 6N23P tubes.
 
But the modded BURL B2B DAC fed by DANTE AOIP - has a certain quality that is mind blowing.  Just another level of detail - and the bass is most defined and deepest I have heard yet - from any DAC/DDC combination.   But the RN3/MUTEC/OXCO/DAC60 is the tonal king.  So my dilemma at this point - each is near sota in their own right.  Would love to have each to switch between - how to decide?
 
My optimal setup would be the DAC60 tubed DAC with a built in DANTE board - is that possible?  Not really - but we are working on it. 
 
The Arrakis Simple 8 AES has me very curious - with it's DC input - fed by a decent LPS.  But not $1000 curious.  Will look for a sub $500 full DANTE BK2 DDC - with DC input before spending any more in that direction.  Note - not a DANTE Optimo chip solution as some threads are touting.
 
Another note - I tried the iFi iPur SPDIF - to see if this could be a $149 substitute for the $1100 Mutec as SPDIF/AES reclocker - no way.  I sent it back.
 
To your questions: I would go RN3 and try it with your Cantana just to see - then use in your office system - if it doesn't beat the 'pont neuf'.  Most who have compared the microrendu to the RN gear - have much preferred the Rednet AOIP.
 
As for the mods on the BURL - yes it not an easy mod - even just replacing the SMPS with a LPS is a difficult job.  We've done some other things as well.  Next on the list is upgrading the on board DANTE Brooklyn 2 card clocks.  The BURL allows the DANTE BK2 card clocks to be set as 'Master'.
 
I looked at the 'Pont Neuf' when building the XU208 XMS thread - interesting. Too bad limited to 96k. 
 
Not sure on the Pure Music and DVS - but if it can run off AOIP or CoreAudio it should work (is is UnPN dependent?)

 

[rb2013]

I should point out that even with it's two weak links (noisy SMPS and SPDIF/AES only output) - the Rednet 3 and D16 still sound better than any USB chain I have heard - apples to apples.
 
It gets more complicated with making comparisons with the modded BURL DAC with DANTE built in.  Here you have to judge DAC+DDC as a system - vs the other possible choices.
 
 
Just a heads-up someone PM'ed this link to a very low cost PC Music Server - with  built in low noise LPS.  $600 for the package shipped with 8GB RAM and 250GB SSD.
 
Completely fanless.  I'm very tempted to try one.
 
http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=83

 

[rb2013]

Also a note  - made a very significant discovery on the office system this morning.  Will start a new thread on this (could be major).
 
In my office system I have been using my Uber USB chain.  Which includes the Startech GB LAN USB Extender.  This unit provides galvanic isolation to USB and is possibly the most effective USB 'packet noise' filter available.  Anyway in terms of SQ - it is terrific - in fact gets USB much closer to AOIP then any other of the numerous USB gizmos out there (I have tried almost all of them and many together in almost endless combinations).  I replaced the SMPS power units on the sending and receiving with inexpensive LPS's.  This really helped the SQ.
 
Any way to cut to the chase - some one PM'd me and asked if I had ever tried running music from a USB stick in one of the empty ports.  The Startech REX has four USB ports - this is the unit after GI and USB PN filtration.  I never thought of that.  So this morning I tried it - Wow!  A very noticeable improvement in liquidity, dynamics and natural musical ease.
 
This is quite amazing.
 
I will move this whole rig down to the main listening room over the next few days for a more detailed listening analysis - then start a new a thread.  This could really be big.
 
The USB stick I had was a very old 8GB one.  Just ordered a 2TB - yes 2TB! on Ebay for $13.  Is this the ultimate SSD storage method?  Completely isolated from the PC and USB noise.
 


You heard it here first folks
 
Hum......
http://www.ebay.com/itm/361698738497
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HFGQESY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[marcblux]

That Cantana is a beautiful and underrated DAC.

Well as for the Yggie vs the BURL.  There is really no comparison.  The modded BURL is in a whole other league -  that is fed directly by the built in DANTE card.  From a SPDIF input I would put them at a draw.  The Yggie fed by it's own builtin USB falls short.

I only had the Yggie for a few days to compare - and I had sold my Rednet by then.  I used my office system uber USB chain to test SPDIF to SPDIF.

The BURL is definitely warmer and more tube like.  The Yggie no slouch there either - but just a hint of edginess on some tracks.  Both were trounced by my heavily modded tube R2R PCM1704U-K DAC60 - again fed by SPDIF.  As for my DAC60 fed by the RN3/Mutec USB/Antelope OXCO vs the modded BURL fed by the same - I give the DAC60 & AOIP the top slot.  The natural tonal richness is supremely addictive.  The modded DAC60 is no slouch on detail, transparency and sound staging. This is with those magical 'Holy Grail' Russian '75 Reflektor SWGP silver shield 6N23P tubes.

But the modded BURL B2B DAC fed by DANTE AOIP - has a certain quality that is mind blowing.  Just another level of detail - and the bass is most defined and deepest I have heard yet - from any DAC/DDC combination.   But the RN3/MUTEC/OXCO/DAC60 is the tonal king.  So my dilemma at this point - each is near sota in their own right.  Would love to have each to switch between - how to decide?

My optimal setup would be the DAC60 tubed DAC with a built in DANTE board - is that possible?  Not really - but we are working on it. 

The Arrakis Simple 8 AES has me very curious - with it's DC input - fed by a decent LPS.  But not $1000 curious.  Will look for a sub $500 full DANTE BK2 DDC - with DC input before spending any more in that direction.  Note - not a DANTE Optimo chip solution as some threads are touting.

Another note - I tried the iFi iPur SPDIF - to see if this could be a $149 substitute for the $1100 Mutec as SPDIF/AES reclocker - no way.  I sent it back.

To your questions: I would go RN3 and try it with your Cantana just to see - then use in your office system - if it doesn't beat the 'pont neuf'.  Most who have compared the microrendu to the RN gear - have much preferred the Rednet AOIP.

As for the mods on the BURL - yes it not an easy mod - even just replacing the SMPS with a LPS is a difficult job.  We've done some other things as well.  Next on the list is upgrading the on board DANTE Brooklyn 2 card clocks.  The BURL allows the DANTE BK2 card clocks to be set as 'Master'.

I looked at the 'Pont Neuf' when building the XU208 XMS thread - interesting. Too bad limited to 96k. 

Not sure on the Pure Music and DVS - but if it can run off AOIP or CoreAudio it should work (is is UnPN dependent?)

Thank you for your answer ! Lots of information in it !
The cantata replaced an opus 21 which replaced a zanden /cec tl1x which replaced many other ones (orpheus, wadia, etc) ... It needs a good power cable, 1 week warm-up, and then sounds great. Pont neuf is suggested as a solution for distant connection, but it should be the default choice. I sometimes wonder if I shouldn't get a second cantata, but curiosity ...

As long as I tweak electronics with about the same talent as I cook, I will maybe wait until you sell yours
i now need to think more about the alternatives ...

 

[rb2013]

Thank you for your answer ! Lots of information in it !
The cantata replaced an opus 21 which replaced a zanden /cec tl1x which replaced many other ones (orpheus, wadia, etc) ... It needs a good power cable, 1 week warm-up, and then sounds great. Pont neuf is suggested as a solution for distant connection, but it should be the default choice. I sometimes wonder if I shouldn't get a second cantata, but curiosity ...

As long as I tweak electronics with about the same talent as I cook, I will maybe wait until you sell yours

i now need to think more about the alternatives ...

"zanden /cec tl1x"  - that's a mighty nice combo.
 
See my last post - I'm really floored this morning.   Maybe life left in old USB after all. 
 
BTW I see the Cantana uses the R2R PCM1704 like my DAC60 - and many other outstanding DAC's.  I hope TI keeps making them.

 

[marcblux]

"zanden /cec tl1x"  - that's mighty nice combo.

See my last post - I'm really floored this morning.   Maybe life left in old USB after all. 

BTW I see the Cantana uses the R2R PCM1704 like my DAC60 - and many other outstanding DAC's.  I hope TI keeps making them.

Yes, the CEC was a great piece of gear. Had it modified with a better clock and psu.
The zanden sounded very rich.
The resolution audio opus 21 brought speed, better bass, definition and scene. Tough to choose so I kept the less expensive one. The cantata sounded more full and rich, more natural. So I guess getting closer on these aspects to the zanden.

I have seen your last post indeed ... Very interesting !!
Will read the next posts with huge interest, like I have been doing since 2 months

 

[joelha]

  Also a note  - made a very significant discovery on the office system this morning.  Will start a new thread on this (could be major).
 
In my office system I have been using my Uber USB chain.  Which includes the Startech GB LAN USB Extender.  This unit provides galvanic isolation to USB and is possibly the most effective USB 'packet noise' filter available.  Anyway in terms of SQ - it is terrific - in fact gets USB much closer to AOIP then any other of the numerous USB gizmos out there (I have tried almost all of them and many together in almost endless combinations).  I replaced the SMPS power units on the sending and receiving with inexpensive LPS's.  This really helped the SQ.
 
Any way to cut to the chase - some one PM'd me and asked if I had ever tried running music from a USB stick in one of the empty ports.  The Startech REX has four USB ports - this is the unit after GI and USB PN filtration.  I never thought of that.  So this morning I tried it - Wow!  A very noticeable improvement in liquidity, dynamics and natural musical ease.
 
This is quite amazing.
 
I will move this whole rig down to the main listening room over the next few days for a more detailed listening analysis - then start a new a thread.  This could really be big.
 
The USB stick I had was a very old 8GB one.  Just ordered a 2TB - yes 2TB! on Ebay for $13.  Is this the ultimate SSD storage method?  Completely isolated from the PC and USB noise.
 


You heard it here first folks
 
Hum......
http://www.ebay.com/itm/361698738497
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HFGQESY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Hey Rob,
 
I'm certainly interested in the outcome of the solution you're looking at.
 
In the meantime, I'd cancel your order for the flash drive if you can.
 
First, it's kind of like finding a source for $.19 per gallon gasoline. One would be skeptical of such a proposition.
 
But more than that, I've read, I think it was reviews on Amazon regarding similar purchases for SD cards, etc., where the buyer came to find out that the seller had just screwed around with the format of the storage device to make it appear as if it had a storage capacity dramatically beyond what it actually had.
 
I hope you find out differently, but I sincerely doubt it.
 
Thanks for all of the great information you've been devoting to this and other related threads.
 
Joel