AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio

[rb2013]

  Have you guys seen this yet? Although I must say I'm not convinced that the measurement data holds much weight. Seriously how can it be possible that a dirty USB port on a HP laptop is so much cleaner? And what's wrong with sharing the output mode used?
 
http://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurements-of-sonore-microrendu-streamer.577/

I get nauseous just thinking about reading anymore about microrodeo.
 
Ok with that I'll retire to the listening room with a glass of Small Batch 10yr Four Roses Bourbon.
 
I have a date with Tracy Chapman and Neko Case...

 

[mourip]

 
So moving off the virtual emulation to a real card - with better clocking - not much gain?
 
What's Sweetwater's return policy?   Kidding - if may be slightly better (or not at all) but not $1000 better!

 
Did you spring for the RN PCIe card?

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

Good stuff RB, this will be good for future meets but I need one today along with AES/ebu to spdif adapters for the Bellingham meet.

You can get a db25 cable for about $45.

https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-DTF-803-Balanced-Snake-XLR3F/dp/B000068OAL/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1466218884&sr=1-2&keywords=db25+to+xlr

We rock out in silence
except open back phone users, they're quietly loud

Yes I forgot we are on Headfi I guess. Only an issue for home use when trying to put together an active or sub/sat system with multiple DAC's that don't have word clock inputs.

 

[mourip]

 
That should be no problem  - see the diagrams in REDNET Controller manual.

 
Thanks. I thought so but was trying to figure out where I would configure that. Must be in the Dante Control panel where there is that confusing matrix for mapping?
 
So I guess in my case the simplest would be to map the output of JRMC via DVS to both of the devices, speaker system and HP system when I buy a second RN device.
 
I also guess that in JRMC if I play a song it will play on both systems at the same time?

 

[jabbr]

Thanks. I thought so but was trying to figure out where I would configure that. Must be in the Dante Control panel where there is that confusing matrix for mapping?

So I guess in my case the simplest would be to map the output of JRMC via DVS to both of the devices, speaker system and HP system when I buy a second RN device.

I also guess that in JRMC if I play a song it will play on both systems at the same time?

Yes, in that matrix which isn't all that confiusing.
One side is all the sending devices and other side is receiving devices.
On the the cross point you mark which (channels of) sending device A map to which (channels of) receiving device B.
There are very usefull instruction videos on the Audinate YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/HMCwwCg6IbE

Cheers

 

[rb2013]

Ok some listening reports with RN3/Mutec 3+ USB as spdif reclocker:
 
Last night a wonderful listening session.  On Neko Case's 'Fox Confessor Brings the Flood' - the air and transparency was off the charts.  Over the years this album has really grown on me, and I know it very well.  She recorded it with lots of reverb, the guitar honky tonk twangy - a difficult recording for a system to get right.
 
And boy with the RN3/Mutec - it was right as can be!  The imaging spectacular on the 5ft tall Maggie Planars - never has her image been so focused, with a high lumen inner lit quality - just so realistic.  The only things missing was the clinking of glasses and the smell of spilled beer on the saw dust covered floor.
 
This is first time I actually felt this recording had tonal richness - as it's purposefully recorded 'dry'.
 
The ease and smoothness another standout.  Just a sublime delicacy and finesse to the proceedings.  Nothing I have ever heard matches this SQ.
 
The background noise ink black allowing the lowest level of details to emerge.  These deeply buried details reveal the ambient clues that help the Mind/Ear reconstruct a real image in a 3D sound field.  Going from a sound of staggered flat 2D cardboard cutouts - to point sources emanating in all directions in that 3D sound field.  Yes the main frontal wave - but also the very subtle back and side wave reflections that create spacial realism.
 
The other stand out is the deep and articulate bass definition.  I used to use a Velodyne sub-woofer with my Maggies - but with these source enhancement - that's not been necessary (since the PUC2 lite entered the picture), but was still a weak spot in my system.  Not any longer! Now the bass is as deep and defined as my old Firebird Diamonds!  Those had 11" Focal woofers.  But the bass is different even from the FB's - better - it just radiates out filling the room.  A bodily tactile sensation.
 
All this leads to a greater connection to the artist and music - leaving a profound impression.  What all this debate, experimentation in ultimate audio reproduction is about (well at least for me).
 
As I laid my head down to sleep later that night  - I couldn't help but revel in the memory of that impression.  Neko's voice gently echoing "...or somebodies in between girl...and that's as funny as real love..." I couldn't help but smile.
 
Folks this is the real deal and  sea change in sound quality for us audiophiles - at least this one.  And I can't help but relish the idea of having this each and every night - a few steps away and a few clicks of a mouse...great times to me a music fan.
 
Cheers

 

[rb2013]

   
Oh, forgot to answer your question.  Quite easily!  Here:
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/how-do-i-use-roon-and-hqplayer-together/5866
 
You will see Roon become quite open.

Open as in still $500 open or free as in Foobar free, or nominal cost like JRMC?

 

[Kelowna]

So happy you joined this forum!

Wait until XMOS comes out with a dedicated Ravenna chipset and driver package.  Look at what they did to Amanero with their U-8 and now XU-208 and Thesycon drivers for USB.  Don't see many of those Amanero boards as build-in's anymore (even the new one).

Glad to be here.

Yes as AES67 is going to be the new standard, it will only be a matter of time until we see low cost ASIC's utilizing the technology. The future sure is looking bright with AES67!

 

[rb2013]

Glad to be here.

Yes as AES67 is going to be the new standard, it will only be a matter of time until we see low cost ASIC's utilizing the technology. The future sure is looking bright with AES67!

Cheers to that!
 
Got throw a few kudos to Mike for the lead on this REDNET stuff back a few months ago.
 
In my 26yrs + in high end audio - I've rarely been so happy with my systems' sound as I am now.  Just one night like last night makes it all worth it!
 
I know it's not cheap - but I look at my neighbor and his sailboat and what that costs!  He just spent $25,000 on new sails - they do wear out I guess.  Get's to take it out about a dozen times in the year  - most of the rest his time on it is maintenance and upgrades.  This hobby is way cheaper.

 

[rb2013]

That's a cool DAC. I really don't know why manufacturers that make DAC's that limit at 24/192 anyways haven't incorporated Dante yet. I think the issue is they simply don't realize the sonic benefit they will achieve vs USB, and the initial implementation costs vs USB. One thing Alex pointed out that was accurate was the $10500 cost of the PDK evaluation board. A drop in the bucket for large manufacturers, but maybe a bit steep for mom and pop operations. Another thing is Dante might not have enough "audiophile" street cred for them to adopt.

Well we're here to lend them the street creed!
 
For me it's amazing that these ProAudio companies like Focusrite don't capitalize on their layouts for the PDK and in house s/w to branch out with a line of audiophile products?
 
Would them lose studio street creed?  Look at what happened to EMU.
 
A Bomber B2 with USB for those DSD heads and 384k+ gotta have folks but also Dante for the SQ folks like me. Everyone happy!

 

[rb2013]

   
That's exactly what Merging has done with Ravenna. They released the Horus first, then the Hapi (which is a Horus with less board slots), and a year ago the NADAC. The NADAC has been far more successful than they even anticipated. It certainly hasn't hurt their street cred. But the audiophile market has much higher margins, which explains the bulk of price difference between the Hapi and NADAC. They use the distributor/dealer model for the audiophile products, so there's a lot of hungry mouths to feed.

Makes complete sense - better if you or Schiit did a direct buy model.

 

[mhamel]

That's a cool DAC. I really don't know why manufacturers that make DAC's that limit at 24/192 anyways haven't incorporated Dante yet. I think the issue is they simply don't realize the sonic benefit they will achieve vs USB, and the initial implementation costs vs USB. One thing Alex pointed out that was accurate was the $10500 cost of the PDK evaluation board. A drop in the bucket for large manufacturers, but maybe a bit steep for mom and pop operations. Another thing is Dante might not have enough "audiophile" street cred for them to adopt.

 
I've been pinging Dangerous suggesting that they add the option to their Convert-2 and Convert-8 DACs. It would be a nice upgrade. If I wasn't already so happy with the Convert-2, I'd probably give the Burl a try but this DAC isn't going anywhere for a long time... the Burl would have to be pretty amazing to lure me away, and the in the few comparisons I've seen the Convert-2 comes out on top.

 

[Kelowna]

   
I've been pinging Dangerous suggesting that they add the option to their Convert-2 and Convert-8 DACs. It would be a nice upgrade. If I wasn't already so happy with the Convert-2, I'd probably give the Burl a try but this DAC isn't going anywhere for a long time... the Burl would have to be pretty amazing to lure me away, and the in the few comparisons I've seen the Convert-2 comes out on top
 

 
As long as you have a DAC with I2S input, or a USB board that plugs into the mainboard via header pins, you are good to go at adopting this technology with no compromises anyways. This is why I've always been a supporter of DAC manufacturers having an I2S port on their DAC's. This gives direct access to the DAC chip externally without any jitter causing conversions having to take place. When you send I2S over LVDS properly, it has 2% of the jitter of SPDIF, with no ceiling on sample rate. Check out MSB's Pro I2S for a great example. You will simply not beat this system for interfacing to external transports/bridges:
 
http://www.msbtech.com/products/pro.php?Page=platinumHome

 

[mhamel]

   
As long as you have a DAC with I2S input, or a USB board that plugs into the mainboard via header pins, you are good to go at adopting this technology anyways. This is why I've always been a supporter of DAC manufacturers having an I2S port on their DAC's. This gives direct access to the DAC chip externally without any jitter causing conversions having to take place. When you send I2S over LVDS properly, it has 2% of the jitter of SPDIF, with no ceiling on sample rate. Check out MSB's Pro I2S for a great example. You will simply not beat this system for interfacing to external transports/bridges:
 
http://www.msbtech.com/products/pro.php?Page=platinumHome

 
I haven't pulled the Convert-2 apart yet to check the USB input and whether or not it's on a separate board, but I will check that. I had inquired with Audinate about a smaller DIY-centric version of their Brooklyn II development kit but never heard back, and dropping $10K on the full version is a bit much. Heh.  Thanks for the link, I will take a look.

 

[somestranger26]

Got my Rednet 3 yesterday. Setup was a hassle, I thought the people saying that were just tech illiterate but I am a software engineer and thought it was too complicated. I saw the firmware update dated over a month ago and figured I didn't need that since the distributor just got the unit in the day they shipped it to me. The RN3 manual claims that Rednet Control will automatically perform the firmware update but it doesn't.
 
So then to do the firmware update I downloaded the firmware update tool and hit allow on the firewall popup. I tried to update according to the instructions and it froze at something like "Getting file (1/1)" and then it would fail saying "Error: none". I had to call up support and the info card in the box says "8am - 6pm (PST)" but they were on lunch from 12-1 when I was setting it up. When I finally got through to someone they suggested it could be a firewall issue. Turns out the Intel NIC that I bought was showing up as a public network in my network settings and there was no way to change it, and the default for allowing firewall access is for private networks only.
 
So then finally got the firmware to update and then update again (really?). Channel mappings, etc. are also a pain when all I want is 2 channel audio.
 
I wish there was a way to get DVS to work in both ASIO and WDM modes simultaneously like what the XMOS drivers allow. If I want to do anything except listen to music (movies, internet, games...) then I have to turn it off, switch it to WDM, and turn it back on. Also, I was disappointed that WDM mode only supports 48kHz since it's locked at the max 32 channels.
 
As for the sound quality, out of the box it has an edge to my previous USB chain. I wouldn't say it is a "total sea change" or "night and day difference" though. Hopefully with some burn-in I will think that. Anyway, it's a much simpler chain than what I had before and sounds better so it's worth it. I think I sank a similar amount of $$$ into USB audio as well.
 
USB Chain:
 
Modded Belkin F5U602 USB > LH Labs 2G > USB REGEN (Teradak DC30W LPS) > Curious Regen Link > Singxer F-1 > internal I2S > A-GD Master 11
 
Ethernet Chain:
Intel EXPI9301CT GbE Controller > Rednet LAN cable > Rednet 3 > Cabledyne Silver Reference RCA > M11
 
I'm currently doing a hostile takeover of the Cables/tweaks/accessories sale board. You've got some competition, rb2013.