AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio

[rb2013]

  Got my D16 today. Will need some more time to absorb and put together impressions. However, I just wanted to say to those folks who like Roon/Tidal it works fine with D16. Right now I'm playing Roon/Tidal through virtual soundcard ASIO to D16 and then out to Mutec MC-3 + USB (for reclocking)  via AES. I am also using AES from Mutec to Yggy. Not a USB cable to be seen. I've also been listening via JRMC.

Great news!  All the bases covered - thanks!

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

  Hey guys, good news bad news but first I want to acknowledge @atomicbob and his experiment, I read what you did and have some questions. I may want to try replicating your ASIO bridge setup to try it myself with a Breeze Du-u8 and the R3 for a simultaneous control over two output devices. I want to say that while the U12 is a fantastic device I believe that the R3 is a step up so I want to see where things may have changed.. read: does the ASIO bridge/virtual soundcard setup make sq difference void because of how it processes the audio and possibly added (for the lack of words) goobleygook to the audio signal?

So the good news bad news, from my phone call to Focusrite and having a chat with their Rednet specialist: The good news is the Rednet 3 is capable of outputting to multiple DACs and I've confirmed this to be possible but only via AES/EBU breakout cable (Tascam format not Yamaha). The output signal on the optical is not your standard spdif optical but adat optical widely used in pro sound. Unfortunately our DACs are incompatible with only 2ch optical spdif. ADAT is capable of carrying multiple channel signals over optical where as spdif is your standard 2ch; in short the Rednet 3 can't output to our DACs via optical without some kind of conversion from ADAT to SPDIF -- which I'm not sure exists. I'm sure it does but having it in the chain will probably defeat the purpose. So unless you're using a DAC that takes ADAT via optical input, the R3 can not send a signal to your DAC.

 

Another problem is clock sync between all of the DAC's. If you want to use your DAC's internal master clock, you won't have sync between the DAC's. Most DAC's these days reclock the incoming AES/EBU and SPDIF signals internally with a reclock/SRC chip. This causes latency. This is one area where having the Ravenna or Dante interface built into the DAC shines. You have clock sync through the IEEE 1588 grandmaster clock protocol. The only other way is syncing them all through word clock in's and outs. But that's a sub par way of doing things because tons of jitter is introduced with the connections and cable length. Unless a DAC has a very poor internal master clock, you will almost always get better jitter performance using the internal master if it's located very close to the DAC chip. With Ravenna and Dante, each DAC still uses its own master, it's just the skew that the grandmaster clocking keeps in sync within 1 nanosecond. Don't confuse this spec with jitter. The actual jitter performance is still determined by each of the DAC's individual masters.

I can see this an issue in a broadcasting/speaker use standpoint but with headphones where you just want to get a bunch of DACs plugged in to hear what the AES67 can do for their DAC sq over USB, this isn't an issue.

 

[mourip]

Does anyone know if we can use one PC with DVS on it to send music to two different REDNet devices? I would like to eventually consolidate my system so that I have one PC that works for both my speaker system and my headphone system.
 
I realize that I could use something like a uRendu to do this as I am running JRMC however I am in love with the amazing AOIP sound.

 

[Kelowna]

   

I can see this an issue in a broadcasting/speaker use standpoint but with headphones where you just want to get a bunch of DACs plugged in to hear what the AES67 can do for their DAC sq over USB, this isn't an issue.

Yes I forgot we are on Headfi I guess. Only an issue for home use when trying to put together an active or sub/sat system with multiple DAC's that don't have word clock inputs.

 

[Kelowna]

  Does anyone know if we can use one PC with DVS on it to send music to two different REDNet devices? I would like to eventually consolidate my system so that I have one PC that works for both my speaker system and my headphone system.
 
I realize that I could use something like a uRendu to do this as I am running JRMC however I am in love with the amazing AOIP sound.

This is one of the beauties of the grandmaster clocking scheme. Clock sync between multiple devices on the same network. In order to take advantage of this, multiple devices must be used on the same network. So the limit of how many rednet devices that can be used, should be capped on the bandwidth of the network. As long as that's not exceeded, you should be fine. But we are talking a boatload of simultaneous high resolution channels playing.
 
Unless they ding you for licensing per endpoint with Dante. That I'm not 100% sure of.
 
 
I just found this:
 

 

[mhamel]

 
This is one of the beauties of the grandmaster clocking scheme. Clock sync between multiple devices on the same network. In order to take advantage of this, multiple devices must be used on the same network. So the limit of how many rednet devices that can be used, should be capped on the bandwidth of the network. As long as that's not exceeded, you should be fine. But we are talking a boatload of simultaneous high resolution channels playing.
 
Unless they ding you for licensing per endpoint with Dante. That I'm not 100% sure of.

 
No additional licensing per endpoint unless it's a PC that needs to run DVS or Via.  Otherwise you just need the compatible hardware.

 

[Kelowna]

   
No additional licensing per endpoint unless it's a PC that needs to run DVS or Via.  Otherwise you just need the compatible hardware.

You're good to go as long as you don't exceed 512 channels @ 48khz And that's playing simultaneously.

 

[rb2013]

  Does anyone know if we can use one PC with DVS on it to send music to two different REDNet devices? I would like to eventually consolidate my system so that I have one PC that works for both my speaker system and my headphone system.
 
I realize that I could use something like a uRendu to do this as I am running JRMC however I am in love with the amazing AOIP sound.

That should be no problem  - see the diagrams in REDNET Controller manual.

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

I broke the bad news to the meet tomorrow, unfortunately I false advertised the Rednet capable of Toslink chaining.

Yes I forgot we are on Headfi I guess. Only an issue for home use when trying to put together an active or sub/sat system with multiple DAC's that don't have word clock inputs.

 

[rb2013]

 
Yes I forgot we are on Headfi I guess. Only an issue for home use when trying to put together an active or sub/sat system with multiple DAC's that don't have word clock inputs.

How does this play out with

IEEE1588-2008 (also referred to as PTPv2). 

 

[rb2013]

I broke the bad news to the meet tomorrow, unfortunately I false advertised the Rednet capable of Toslink chaining.

You can get a db25 cable for about $45.
 
https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-DTF-803-Balanced-Snake-XLR3F/dp/B000068OAL/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1466218884&sr=1-2&keywords=db25+to+xlr

 

[Kelowna]

If you are using a device that utilizes PTPv2, each endpoint will have clock sync within a nanosecond.

 

[rb2013]

 
This is one of the beauties of the grandmaster clocking scheme. Clock sync between multiple devices on the same network. In order to take advantage of this, multiple devices must be used on the same network. So the limit of how many rednet devices that can be used, should be capped on the bandwidth of the network. As long as that's not exceeded, you should be fine. But we are talking a boatload of simultaneous high resolution channels playing.
 
Unless they ding you for licensing per endpoint with Dante. That I'm not 100% sure of.
 
 
I just found this:
 

And that number grows with a REDNET PCIe/R card instead of DVS - wonder about our lowly 2 channel 192k SQ?  Better with this card vs DVS?
 
For us it's about that bass...err...I mean SQ...
 
I understand with the RN Dante PCIe the latency drops to very low levels - from 4ms to 150us

 

[Kelowna]

 
And that number grows with a REDNET PCIe/R card instead of DVS - wonder about our lowly 2 channel 192k SQ?  Better with this card vs DVS?
 
For us it's about that bass...err...I mean SQ...

I would be very surprised if a fiber converter was used, if you could hear a difference between the DVS and the Rednet card.

 

[rb2013]

 
I would be very surprised if a fiber converter was used, if you could hear a difference between the DVS and the Rednet card.

So moving off the virtual emulation to a real card - with better clocking - not much gain?
 
What's Sweetwater's return policy?   Kidding - if may be slightly better (or not at all) but not $1000 better!