AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio

[peteAllen]

I have the Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref II. It sounds best on USB with it's double clocks. TotalDAC seem to favour AES, as their server has no USB or Ethernet I believe?

The server you use depends on how USB performs IMO. If it is noisy, then ethernet can provide some isolation from that, albeit IMO a loss as it goes through yet more circuits and conversions.

Oh wow, that's a very nice dac. Admittedly I had to google it as I'd never heard of it. And it appears you're a fellow Wammer.

The totaldac has a usb input. Not sure about the totaldac server/streamer as I don't have that. I'm trying to avoid upgraditis (2 years and counting...) For now, Rednet sounds great with good aes & ethernet cables etc, which I use with a self built fanless server with various tweaks and a Paul Hynes psu.

 

[astrostar59]

So have you done the internal LPS mod? I highly recommend that, as it does make a big difference. The parts / kit is about 140USD. I bet you could still sell it later as a maxed out Rednet for audio use. My mod still has the IEC 230v input, not the mod where you make a 12v DC input only.

Good luck.

 

[peteAllen]

So have you done the internal LPS mod? I highly recommend that, as it does make a big difference. The parts / kit is about 140USD. I bet you could still sell it later as a maxed out Rednet for audio use. My mod still has the IEC 230v input, not the mod where you make a 12v DC input only.

Good luck.

That sounds like a good idea. Do you have a link related to the parts/kit? I've been playing with soldering recently so this sounds like something that would be fun. Thanks

 

[astrostar59]

Dig back in this thread, it is all in here. Pics etc. I got my kit off Ebay.

 

[mhamel]

Has @mhamel modded his C-2. Would he feel strongly either way about that.

I have not felt the need to even attempt it. My D16 has an external LPS and I use the clock in the C-2 as the master. Would someone mind PMing me the link to the thread about modding it on the other forum?

Thanks,
-Mike

 

[Iving]

I have not felt the need to even attempt it. My D16 has an external LPS and I use the clock in the C-2 as the master. Would someone mind PMing me the link to the thread about modding it on the other forum?

Thanks,
-Mike

Thanks Mike
I'd like that link too please.

 

[Muziqboy]

I haven't modded my D16 AES - nor my Convert-2. This is a provocation!
The RedNet mods were pioneered some time ago. Have things changed much. Can you guys provide an overview of what you would do if you were modding one now. Is the conversion blog created by @johnjen way back a sota summary. (I notice the D16 AES is out of production and the D16R its replacement has 2 SMPSs of course.)
@Muziqboy I'm loathe to break into a mint 2.5k Convert-2. Is it worth it? If I depreciate its value significantly? Has @mhamel modded his C-2. Would he feel strongly either way about that.
Could I get up to speed with PoE trawling Bob's USAM threads.
@Muziqboy what do you make of NUC. Is your use of NUC in any way inspired by the "novel way" CA thread. We can't use Audiolinux right. I love fb2k. Is JPLAY worth a trial for SQ alone.
I don't have 1 or more Mutec reclockers. Is modding these straightforward. Are the SQ gains significant. btw I built a DIY AES cable with Dueland silver ribbon see here: https://www.usaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1465&start=465#p11805. The gain was truly massive. I'd have to build 2 identical ones a bit longer if I have a reclocker between D16 and C-2. The REF 10 is out of reach for me right now. Do you think the USB MC-3+ USB will be superseded any time soon.
(Is @astrostar59 still on the block or moved on to finer things.)
Sorry about all the "conversation gambits". It's great to see folks still dedicated to RedNet as I am. Wondering how things have gone and where they might go.
atb

Modding the Convert-2 is up to you if you accept the risks, although the way that I modded it, I can easily go back to stock if I have to.
Just to let you know that the mods on the C-2 are not as simple as when we modded the Rednet 3.
As for the NUC, well I have been using that ever since and is in no way inspired by any thread. I am using an lps to power it though.

 

[Iving]

Modding the Convert-2 is up to you if you accept the risks, although the way that I modded it, I can easily go back to stock if I have to.
Just to let you know that the mods on the C-2 are not as simple as when we modded the Rednet 3.

Have you posted your C-2 conversion method?
Thanks

 

[Muziqboy]

I have not. Too busy with work and other things right now.
And the mods are very involving.
Rednet 3 and D16 only deals with 5vdc so it was easy.
Convert-2 deals with 5v, 12v, and +/-18v (dual polarity) so for the electrical/electronics minded, I have given you a clue.
I got the regulators from LDOVR. If I find the time, I'll try to post a how-to guide and also be ready to spend some $$. Did I forgot to mention that it ain't cheap.

 

[Iving]

I have not. Too busy with work and other things right now.
And the mods are very involving.
Rednet 3 and D16 only deals with 5vdc so it was easy.
Convert-2 deals with 5v, 12v, and +/-18v (dual polarity) so for the electrical/electronics minded, I have given you a clue.
I got the regulators from LDOVR. If I find the time, I'll try to post a how-to guide and also be ready to spend some $$. Did I forgot to mention that it ain't cheap.

Sure would be interested to see/evaluate your C-2 "how to" notes if and when you get the time ...

 

[mourip]

I have dropped out of the Rednet path also. I had a lot of issues with Rednet Control dropping communication with both DVS and my D16. It would do it predictably about every 2 days. I contacted Focusrite multiple times and they had no fix. I also found rate following to be erratic. I do not think that Focusrite really has any interest in the audiophile market.

I have moved to AudioLinux, and with a fair amount of tweaking have found it to exceed AOIP in sound quality. I use a NUC running Roon endpoint booting from a USB stick into ramroot with no internal drives. USB out to my Mutec 3+ USB/Ref10 with AES out to my Yggy. LPSs all around including removing the SMPS from my Mutec USB.

Sorry to divert from the Rednet discussion.

 

[astrostar59]

I have dropped out of the Rednet path also. I had a lot of issues with Rednet Control dropping communication with both DVS and my D16. It would do it predictably about every 2 days. I contacted Focusrite multiple times and they had no fix. I also found rate following to be erratic. I do not think that Focusrite really has any interest in the audiophile market.

I have moved to AudioLinux, and with a fair amount of tweaking have found it to exceed AOIP in sound quality. I use a NUC running Roon endpoint booting from a USB stick into ramroot with no internal drives. USB out to my Mutec 3+ USB/Ref10 with AES out to my Yggy. LPSs all around including removing the SMPS from my Mutec USB.

Sorry to divert from the Rednet discussion.

My point exactly. This is DAC / server dependant. In some cases the Rednet can improve things, others not. If the USB is weak on the DAC, then AES may work better via the Rednet. I had to use SPDIF on my then Audio Note DAC 5, and it did sound great. But my current DAC sounds better on USB direct. I tried it with the Rednet 3 modded in the chain, but it flattened the soundstage a bit, and dynamics were reduced. My old USB chain had some grain in the treble, and the Rednet got rid of that. But if your DAC has well designed USB with noise rejection and clocking, it should beat the Rednet.

Focusrite are DAW environment, so not surprising they have little interest. They don't promote the Rednet as an Ethernet - SPDIF convertor, it is really a router with that output added for monitoring purposes.

There are other Ethernet to USB devices that could work. My advice is look at your DAC. Many have poor USB boards, which will send you down the AES / SPDIF routes. But those routes mean you need another board on the server, or there is an additional process out of the server to output AES / SPDIF. This is part of the reason IMO early servers sounded rubbish.

The Roon Nucleus is IMO a good product, very simple to use and backed up by Roon and Intel. 1.5K is a steal, many good server cost 3 times that. And IMO Roon beats the other players. I never liked the Aurender player, or trust another type of system in a server, as it can be a dead end, poor investment.

Get the Nucleus and your done. Hook it up to your ethernet router, and your USB external drive. Run it off a decent 12V LPS. Good setup.

 

[Iving]

I have dropped out of the Rednet path also. I had a lot of issues with Rednet Control dropping communication with both DVS and my D16. It would do it predictably about every 2 days. I contacted Focusrite multiple times and they had no fix. I also found rate following to be erratic. I do not think that Focusrite really has any interest in the audiophile market.

I have moved to AudioLinux, and with a fair amount of tweaking have found it to exceed AOIP in sound quality. I use a NUC running Roon endpoint booting from a USB stick into ramroot with no internal drives. USB out to my Mutec 3+ USB/Ref10 with AES out to my Yggy. LPSs all around including removing the SMPS from my Mutec USB.

Sorry to divert from the Rednet discussion.

My point exactly. This is DAC / server dependant. In some cases the Rednet can improve things, others not. If the USB is weak on the DAC, then AES may work better via the Rednet. I had to use SPDIF on my then Audio Note DAC 5, and it did sound great. But my current DAC sounds better on USB direct. I tried it with the Rednet 3 modded in the chain, but it flattened the soundstage a bit, and dynamics were reduced. My old USB chain had some grain in the treble, and the Rednet got rid of that. But if your DAC has well designed USB with noise rejection and clocking, it should beat the Rednet.

Focusrite are DAW environment, so not surprising they have little interest. They don't promote the Rednet as an Ethernet - SPDIF convertor, it is really a router with that output added for monitoring purposes.

There are other Ethernet to USB devices that could work. My advice is look at your DAC. Many have poor USB boards, which will send you down the AES / SPDIF routes. But those routes mean you need another board on the server, or there is an additional process out of the server to output AES / SPDIF. This is part of the reason IMO early servers sounded rubbish.

The Roon Nucleus is IMO a good product, very simple to use and backed up by Roon and Intel. 1.5K is a steal, many good server cost 3 times that. And IMO Roon beats the other players. I never liked the Aurender player, or trust another type of system in a server, as it can be a dead end, poor investment.

Get the Nucleus and your done. Hook it up to your ethernet router, and your USB external drive. Run it off a decent 12V LPS. Good setup.

astro ... Anathema to me on several counts not the least of which is I loathe Roon and and all other commercial subscription services - and anything or anyone else that does my organising or thinking for me.

Last time I used USB I acquired a trenchant Pavlovian aversion to it. Probably it will take a fundamental paradigm shift whether USB, AoIP or anything else to lever me away from Rednet. All my music is offline Redbook/flac upsampled to 176.4 KHz in fb2k Sox - no need for SR follow. No issues with DVS/DC/dropouts ever. I do watch out for Bob wherever he is and follow CA "novel way" in case something triggers displacement of my neurosis - but it hasn't done so yet.

 

[astrostar59]

Respect Iving. But your DAC is influencing your decision making. As I said, this is DAC dependant on the effect / route people will take. DS DACs benefit from upsampling post sending in many cases as the digital filter is causing havoc with the sound. I don't want to get into a big off topic on that, but IMO that is what I hear to my ears.

The streaming situation has moved recently. I can get better sound out of 24 bit 96k or 24 bit 192k files off Qobuz than Redbook sat on my hard drive. I have buddies on different systems who say the same.

Your experience with USB is with your DAC and it's input, that is my point. It is not applying to all DACs or all cases. So at the moment, you are probably best staying on Rednet (as I was before).

 

[Iving]

Respect Iving. But your DAC is influencing your decision making. As I said, this is DAC dependant on the effect / route people will take. DS DACs benefit from upsampling post sending in many cases as the digital filter is causing havoc with the sound. I don't want to get into a big off topic on that, but IMO that is what I hear to my ears.

The streaming situation has moved recently. I can get better sound out of 24 bit 96k or 24 bit 192k files off Qobuz than Redbook sat on my hard drive. I have buddies on different systems who say the same.

Your experience with USB is with your DAC and it's input, that is my point. It is not applying to all DACs or all cases. So at the moment, you are probably best staying on Rednet (as I was before).

Well - not true astro because I acquired my Convert-2 after I abandoned USB. I have only ever used its AES input. But respect likewise! and you have far more knowledge and experience with (upmarket) DACs than I do. Second - even if it could be proven that a streamer outperformed offline delivery I wouldn't be interested for reasons already given.