[Iving]

Great, I hope you enjoy the sound improvement as much as I did. I did have some trouble getting it set up. The latest firmware is necessary (install from the Rednet app). It can work direct to the d16, the only catch I found is that I needed both ends connected via ethernet so that they could "see" each other. I think there was some improvement after setting it up and removing the second ethernet cable from the d16, but as I often make changes to dante, I now keep the d16 connected to ethernet

Thanks Pete,
I have my PC connected direct to the D16. No switch. I stay offline but if I need the internet it is connected via the PC. There is no ethernet connection at the D16 except the incoming audio signal. I intend to keep it that way. That is, I will install the card, update firmware if necessary via internet connected to standard ethernet on the PC, and then remain offline with an ethernet connection direct from the RedNet PCIeR card to the D16. Do I understand you OK? Thanks

 

[mourip]

Thanks Pete,
I have my PC connected direct to the D16. No switch. I stay offline but if I need the internet it is connected via the PC. There is no ethernet connection at the D16 except the incoming audio signal. I intend to keep it that way. That is, I will install the card, update firmware if necessary via internet connected to standard ethernet on the PC, and then remain offline with an ethernet connection direct from the RedNet PCIeR card to the D16. Do I understand you OK? Thanks

That is how I am doing it except that I have a dedicated Intel NIC with DVS for the connection to the D16 rather than using a PCIeR card. I do use fiber from my second built-in NIC out to my router for ground isolation.

Looking forward to more reports on SQ using the PCIeR.

 

[peteAllen]

The difference I'm referring to between using the rednet pcie card and a normal card, is that the rednet card cannot be used for anything apart from dante duties - it won't function as a (normal) ethernet card, so you can't use the d16 feature to act as an ethernet adapter.

Iving, in your setup, you may find that when you're setting up dante, you'll have to have both d16 and pc separately connected to the same network at the same time as the direct connection between them (ie both have two ethernet cables connected). Otherwise, when you open up Rednet or Dante app, it won't see the endpoints, so you won't be able to connect the pcie endpoint to the d16 one in the app. After setup, you can remove the second dante network cable. I'm not sure how you can remove the second network cable from the pc unless you are controlling the playlist directly on that pc. I have a second network cable always on the normal nic of the pc that allows me to control Roon over wifi

 

[Iving]

The difference I'm referring to between using the rednet pcie card and a normal card, is that the rednet card cannot be used for anything apart from dante duties - it won't function as a (normal) ethernet card, so you can't use the d16 feature to act as an ethernet adapter.

Iving, in your setup, you may find that when you're setting up dante, you'll have to have both d16 and pc separately connected to the same network at the same time as the direct connection between them (ie both have two ethernet cables connected). Otherwise, when you open up Rednet or Dante app, it won't see the endpoints, so you won't be able to connect the pcie endpoint to the d16 one in the app. After setup, you can remove the second dante network cable. I'm not sure how you can remove the second network cable from the pc unless you are controlling the playlist directly on that pc. I have a second network cable always on the normal nic of the pc that allows me to control Roon over wifi

Thanks Pete,
I got that the RedNet card is for Dante not www from your earlier posts. I'll try to digest the "endpoints" problem and thanks for the pointers if I need them. I don't use anything except fb2k/ASIO to play flac. I don't use Roon, HQPlayer, any online service - no streaming - no commercial anything. Just my flac offline from fb2k. I hope that this simplicity works in my favour!

 

[peteAllen]

Thanks Pete,
I got that the RedNet card is for Dante not www from your earlier posts. I'll try to digest the "endpoints" problem and thanks for the pointers if I need them. I don't use anything except fb2k/ASIO to play flac. I don't use Roon, HQPlayer, any online service - no streaming - no commercial anything. Just my flac offline from fb2k. I hope that this simplicity works in my favour!

That should work well. I'm sure you'll figure it out. Just in case, I will spell it out, as I probably won't be responding to this forum quickly at the point at which you may need help....

The dante/rednet app on the audio-pc doesn't use www or ip (tcp on port 80), but it does a network scan for dante devices (I think it scans for a certain dante-specific port on every network device). For this network scan, it requires a way of reaching the d16 excluding the connection via rednet pcie. You will notice in Network Connections that the pcie device is not even listed as a network adapter - nothing can see or use it apart from the Rednet PCIe ASIO endpoint itself, which is what I have selected in hqplayer as the output device.

So for setting up, I have to have this network topology in place:

d16 (primary ethernet socket) - ethernet cable - audio-pc (rednet pcie ethernet socket)
and
d16 (secondary ethernet socket) - ethernet cable - switch - ethernet cable - audio-pc (normal ethernet socket)

Now, opening the dante app, you should be able to see just the d16 and rednet pcie card (probably also your old DVS software endpoint - i suggest stopping / uninstalling this). Configure the network. I have mine set to 24/192 and upsample using hqplayer. If you need to have sample rate following enabled, I believe that requires the rednet app running on the background.

After setup and testing that the audio plays fine, you can remove all but the direct ethernet link between the d16 & audio-pc.
If you have sample rate following enabled, I expect this won't work well because the Rednet app will at some point realise that it can't see the d16. This is probably the one issue with using the pcie card and direct connection. With DVS and a normal nic network connection, I believe the rednet app can still see the d16 through the direct connection. If you find a solution for this, please let me know!

 

[Iving]

Just in case, I will spell it out ... If you find a solution for this, please let me know!

Thanks for creating these notes Pete.
I will have a fresh Windows installation (no DVS).
My flacs are upsampled to 192 in fb2k/Sox. Everything is at that rate. So I have no need for follow.
The relevant Focusrite resources are here: https://uk.focusrite.com/ethernet-audio-interfaces/rednet-pcie-card/downloads. The installation guide reads: "RedNet PCIe is not a standard network card. If the computer which RedNet PCIe is installed in is required to run Dante Controller or RedNet Control, a second Ethernet cable will need to be connected between the computer’s onboard Ethernet port and the Ethernet switch" ... "Connect a vacant Ethernet port on your computer to a port on your Gbit Switch with a Cat6 Ethernet cable. If you have installed a RedNet PCIe card, connect its Ethernet port to a port on the Gbit switch with a second Cat6 Ethernet cable. Connect the Ethernet ports on the rear of each RedNet I/O interface in the system to further ports on the Gbit switch with Cat6 Ethernet cables.The recommended order of powering the components in a RedNet system is as follows: Power up the Gbit switch; Power up all RedNet units on the networks one by one (power-on sequence takes approx.40 s per unit) Boot the host computer."
I don't use a switch. I'll be interested to see how convoluted it is to set up a direct PC - D16 signal route.
I was expecting the card today. It didn't arrive. Long story. Retailer hadn't kept on top of things. Focusrite out of stock (!) for at least another week. Another retailer with stock promised price match but wouldn't. In short I'll have to wait a week - at least.

 

[Iving]

I've sent the following to support:

Dear Focusrite,
A domestic audiophile, I play music via DVS on a PC direct to a D16 AES. In addition to DVS, I have RedNet Control (/Dante Controller) installed on the PC. Aside from updating firmware/software, I have no need whatsoever to be online. I do not use a switch. The only ethernet connection required during play is between my PC and the D16 AES.
I intend to buy a RedNet PCIeR ethernet card. I will reinstall Windows and will have no need for DVS. I understand that the RedNet PCIeR card is not a network card. I would like to set up an "all other things equal" direct connection between the PCIeR card and the D16 AES with the minimum of fuss.
1. Will I be able to do this with no switch?
2. Will I able to to do this with a direct ethernet connection between the RedNet PCIeR Card and the D16 AES only?
3. If not, will an additional hard connection to the internet from my PC (standard LAN/NIC) suffice?
4. Or will I require another, separate ethernet connection from the D16 AES to any other point on the network?
I ask because I am unclear reading the RedNet Installation Guide etc here https://uk.focusrite.com/ethernet-audio-interfaces/rednet-pcie-card/downloads,and because of the shared experience of fellow audiophiles (although they have different systems and so their experience mightn't necessarily apply).
I presume that no matter the setup requirements, I will be able to play music post setup with no ethernet connection except that between the PC and the D16 AES.
I look forward to hearing from you.
P.S. An utterly secondary question: Does the sample rate follow capacity of the RedNet system depend on the answers to any of the questions 1-4 (supra). Thanks

 

[Iving]

This document: https://d2zjg0qo565n2.cloudfront.ne...downloads/8289/rednet-system-user-guide_0.pdf

seems to suggest that DVS and Soundcard work differently wrt RedNet Control:

"The computer into which the card is attached will require RedNet Control to be installed. The Ethernet port/ ports on the PCIe/ PCIeR card should be connected to the network via a Gigabit Ethernet switch, and the host computer’s native Ethernet port should be connected to another port on this same switch. In this arrangement, the PCIe/ PCIeR card’s Ethernet port handles all the audio and the native port handles the control data between RedNet Control and the remote RedNet I/O units."

 

[Iving]

I'm beginning to understand Pete's notes better now. Unlike with DVS, RC won't be able to see/supervise the D16 without a switch using a RedNet PCIe Card. I'm not willing to use a switch. I'll sleep on it and see what Focusrite say, but right now thinking I am glad for the stock issue and will cancel. I can still use my Intel Card in PCIe_3 retaining the Optane-related advantages described earlier.

 

[peteAllen]

Iving, I don’t see any reason your configuration won’t work. I can pull out the extra network cables from my pc and d16 and it will continue playing the track to the end and then plays the next track. I just can’t control it with Roon on my ipad. I also keep the d16 and pc on permanently- if you do this you also won’t need the extra connection. It’s only for setup and for when either is restarted

Btw when I had trouble with this, I also emailed Focusrite and after not initially getting it (their main customer base is definitely not computer audiophiles!), they simply insisted that what I was trying to do was impossible...!

 

[Iving]

Thoughts on waking today:

- RedNet Control (RC) cannot see/supervise the D16 AES under the only playing conditions I could tolerate; i.e., a single, direct ethernet connection between PC (PCIeR Card) and D16 AES;

- peteAllen is confident - even tho' Focusrite will deny it - and I believe Pete! - that music will play after disconnection of any other network plugs/cables required for initialisation;

- I could create a tidy enough cabling arrangement that would permit such initialisation/disconnection - and I would be willing to do the work if it were the right approach for me - but it would feel like a "fudge" in which RC cannot do what it's supposed to do during play unlike with DVS (advising me btw that DVS must be a channel for RC and not merely an audio path);

- The only setting I alter in RC when sparking up my system is my DAC as WC as I prefer my DAC's WC to the D16's - there's not much in it - but I wonder about whether RC is needed to maintain that WC setting over time - I have not found that to be so - but I don't leave my system on 24/7;

- As I tend to spark up and down fairly frequently, I would have to initialise/disconnect every time - more of a pain than for someone who leaves things on 24/7;

- The cabling arrangement I would probably employ would be one in which I just run a cable from D16 to router - disconnecting that cable at the router after setup - and also disconnecting the internet connection at the PC - all more of a palaver than just starting DVS without having to touch a single cable or plug - and I do just wonder whether a direct secondary cable from a PC NIC/LAN to the secondary port on the D16 could be used for initialisation and put in a drawer afterwards (still more awkward than starting DVS) - till next time I start the system ... and the next ...;

- I've started wondering about what level of SQ advantage could accrue after all this - I dare say Focusrite would say "none" on the one hand (if I referred to latency) but then they promote the Card for "best performance" (not merely # channels) - Pete says "more alive" - I suspect that the ultra low latency would help - but I've got to wondering whether how things might be affected if I don't have access to all the advanced Network Adapter settings that Intel permits in PROWIN - I mean - presumably RedNet concretises these - possibly including power saving settings etc - so there is a (theoretical) risk that SQ could suffer!;

- For the price of a RedNet Card I could get a Mutec Reclocker (give or take) - or a nice DAP like the Astell & Kern Kann to use weekending in the van or out walking so that I can have more listening time - furthering my personal ambition to explore deeper into classical music - all of which tempts me to defer getting the Card till things are clearer - but I got a quote for the RedNet Card I would probably not achieve again and am reluctant to let it go;

- Finally - I suspect that Focusrite will not send a helpful answer - they will mean well - but they will say - as reported by Pete already - that RC needs to see RedNet units on a network and uses a different method to do that compared with DVS - and that no direct music play is even possible- but that networks are good and latency doesn't matter (we audiophiles being all rather silly about things).

I guess I'm talking myself into cancelling?
If I've missed anything - please chime in!

 

[Iving]

Cancelled - My adventure with RedNet PCIe(R) stops here - at least for now.
I'll install my Intel X540-T2 and DVS instead.

I'll be able to comment about Optane. It isn't just about Optane. It's about PCIe/CPU only with no switches/PCH-H involved when use of SATA even M.2 NVME (not to mention the dreaded banshee USB) and also onboard LANs eliminated. Optane AIC in PCIEX16_1, Intel X540-T2 in PCIEX16_3 - no other h/w on mobo except RAM and ice-pipe (copper no moving parts) cooler:

 

[peteAllen]

Iving, I think your reasoning is sound. One other thought is that I suspect that it would also be possible to connect the d16 secondary network card to the pc nic directly to enable the Dante or Rednet Controller app to see the d16. I haven’t tested this because I use Roon and because I need remote desktop to access the audio server. Good luck with the Optane and I’d definitely recommend delving more into the world of classical. My favourite recent discovery is Bartok’s Romanian Folk Dances

 

[johnjen]

I'd bet that the "Best Performance" relates directly to a complex network spread out with many, many channels and nodes where a dedicated network card would make a difference.

But for us using only 2 channels, in close proximity, and with very low transfer rates to boot.
I mean right now while playing music as I type this my data rate is 580KB/s transmit and 1.7KB/s receive, on a gigabit port.
And granted that is at 44.1KB/s, even so, if I max out to 192KB/s the transmit jumps up to whopping 2.4MB/s / 3.8KB/s (up/down transfer speeds).

IOW our specific use, uses so little of the available bandwidth let alone the proximity can all contribute to exceptionally low latency and stability.

JJ

 

[Iving]

Iving, I think your reasoning is sound. One other thought is that I suspect that it would also be possible to connect the d16 secondary network card to the pc nic directly to enable the Dante or Rednet Controller app to see the d16. I haven’t tested this because I use Roon and because I need remote desktop to access the audio server. Good luck with the Optane and I’d definitely recommend delving more into the world of classical. My favourite recent discovery is Bartok’s Romanian Folk Dances

Hi Pete,
Yes - The second part of my "Thoughts on waking" #6 contemplated a direct ethernet cable for inititialisation, but that would still be a "fudge" (for me) and a manual inconvenience. Thanks for the Bartok tip