[InsanityOne]

  Some pertinent info from another thread:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/784471/what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been-robert-hunter/1410#post_13075230

 
So basically, to make a long story short: All else the same, in a blind A-B test, it was nearly impossible to tell the difference between a $1600 RedNet Dante device and a $599 Attero Tech unDAES-O? That's definitely good to know. No we just need someone to A-B an Attero Tech unDAES-O + Yggy (or other high-end DAC) and a Dante DAC like the Burl B2 Bomber.
 
- InsanityOne 

 

[gldgate]

   
So basically, to make a long story short: All else the same, in a blind A-B test, it was nearly impossible to tell the difference between a $1600 RedNet Dante device and a $599 Attero Tech unDAES-O? That's definitely good to know. No we just need someone to A-B an Attero Tech unDAES-O + Yggy (or other high-end DAC) and a Dante DAC like the Burl B2 Bomber.
 
- InsanityOne 

 
Yes, very nice news for those looking for more inexpensive Dante solutions that don't need the additional features of the RedNet boxes. Step in the right direction for further consumer audio adoption.

 

[rb2013]

Things are progressing nicley here - the new thread should be up over the Holidays.
I posted this on my LPS thread - but thought some who read this one would find it of interest.
Cheers!
 

  Last time you listed your USB chain you where using a USB/SPDIF reclocker are you still using a Singxer or are you only using USB decrapifiers now?

No SPDIF reclocker. I tried the iFi SPDIF relcocker and it made the SQ worse, so I sent it back for a refund.  Now a better SPDIF reclocker like the Mutec MC-3+ USB might make the SQ slightly better - but it's over $1000 - a lot of money for a marginal improvement.
 
The chain is quite complex - and was arrived at by innumerable variations and trials.  But the payoff has been absolutely worth it.  In fact, I've been at this for a couple of years now - and the level of SQ improvements just continues to startle me.  I'm noticing a level of detail retrieval that is unprecedented in ANY system I have heard (including Jason Serinus and his DCS Rossini player and clock - see his review in the the latest issue of Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/content/dcs-rossini-player-rossini-clock-jason-victor-serinus#dUxUeAx2LDv3mmu2.97).
 
It is such a seachange in SQ, I find myself reevaluating how I listen to music.  Complex productions, well recorded - have brought a new level of appreciation.  The unfolding of the musical event and the thought behind the way that it was recorded.  I've gained a greater appreciation to this artistry.  Not to mention the increased unveiling of the lowest levels of ambient details - presenting small things and big things in a realistic fashion.  The little bell ring off to the left - just hanging in space as the ring trails off into blackness, the very subtle vocal background - before there in a semi-defused way - now clear and discernible, understandable.  The way a piano or guitar note sounds - so realistic - the immediacy of the initial impulse wave then the clear and almost infinite trailing off of the resonate overtones in space.  The deep visceral vibration from a drum roll, the tactile impression of the strikes, virtually creating a visual impression, it just goes on and on.  Not to mention the sublime air, space and resolved transparency, or the slam and speed of the dynamics.  Just making musical listening an 'event'.  Even from 30 yrs recordings I've heard a thousand times, bringing a fresh new perspective.
 
This speed and slam - dynamics both micro and macro - are the biggest improvements over the best I could get from AOIP Rednet/Mutec/Antelope and the BURL B2B Dante DAC (modded with a LPS PS).  The AOIP sounds sluggish or slow in comparison.  I would say that AOIP had a clinical quality to it - I would find myself losing interest in the music quickly - it sounded great - but just lacked some emotional connection.  I find that USB does this better.  Hard to explain - maybe it's a greater tonal density or richness?  Definitely the higher degree of dynamics makes for a more realistic effect.  The other biggest difference is the greater amount of detail being presented over the best I could get from AOIP.
 
The actual data and power chain is too complex to go into here - I'll describe it all great detail in my upcoming thread.  And the evolution of the path that brought me finally to this place.  I'm beginning to feel this is the final destination - my game over solution.  I keep asking myself what would I want better or more of?  Nothing - just infinite time to re-listen to my vast music collection.
 
Over the Holidays I'll be visiting a friend with a very nice system - OffRamp 5, PS Audio Direct stream, etc... He lives near Jason, and introduced me to him a few years back.  I'm bringing my entire digital source chain to his house - Music Sever to DAC.  I will carve out the USB DDC Ultra chain to feed his PS Audio DAC to do on the fly comparisons to his i2s feed from the OR5.  To have a listen there in a different setting, another pair of astute ears.  If that goes well I will ask Jason to see If can try the Ultra USB chain feeding the the Rossini vs it's built in USB - now that would be interesting...

 

[Albrecht]

 I find that USB does this better.  Hard to explain - maybe it's a greater tonal density or richness?  Definitely the higher degree of dynamics makes for a more realistic effect.  The other biggest difference is the greater amount of detail being presented over the best I could get from AOIP.

 
Fascinating. I am waiting with great interest for your new thread.
 
Most surprised that you've gone back to USB....
 
Cheers,

 

[rb2013]

   
Fascinating. I am waiting with great interest for your new thread.
 
Most surprised that you've gone back to USB....
 
Cheers,

I'm as surprised as you are.  I had the USB chain in my office and it sounded very good.  But someone asked if I tried USB sticks in the Startech?  And that got me curious, used an old 8GB as a trial - and it sounded very good.  Bought some new PNY 256GB - three in fact - they were much better. 
 
So then upgraded the power supply on the REX (MEIYAN 24VDC discrete LPS/Teddy Pardo silver DC power cable)(four port Ethernet receiver end), even better, that just got me thinking about trying it in my main system - well it floored me at how good it sounded.  The USB sticks needed a 100 hours to settle in.  Added JB's (modded to a VBUS blocker) to the REX before the 2G data leg to the Recovery and another at the PC before feeding the data leg of the LEX.  Upgraded the LEX PS to a LPS.  All this just kept improving the SQ. 
 
Swapped the HD spinner running the OS to a SSD (128GB PNY for $39) - now the system has no moving parts(still using SATA filter on the SSD) - even better.  Last upgrade was Fidelizer Pro running as Purist.
 
I still can not believe how much the SQ improved over every thing before - not easy but more then well worth it.  This new ultra USB chain is as big, maybe bigger step up over the best I could get from AOIP, as AOIP was over the Uber USB chain I had before.  At a fraction of the cost.  In fact I would have to say the SQ improvement from this source is one of the greatest audio advancements in terms of SQ I have yet heard in 30yrs of audio.
 
Still have one last experiment to try (replacing the Recovery fed by a TeraDak/Dc iPur) with a LT3042 R-Core 5VDC LPS - directly to the iPur2>F-1.
 
Oh and had a long interesting conversation with someone in the industry I respect - and they have a killer USB gizmo coming -

, as well as a audiophile AOIP implementation in the works.  Fun times!
 
Cheers!

 

[rb2013]

Someone over on this CA thread mentioned that USB sticks sound better then SSD or HDD:
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f7-disk-storage-music-library-storage/does-solid-state-drive-sound-better-hard-disk-1650/index4.html

sandyk

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You're trying to explain digital audio system with analog means where indeed power supply quality or line noise may affect the signal




Many people will tell you that a USB memory stick, which has an inbuilt 3.3V voltage regulator , sounds a little better than either SSD or HDD. It's very easy to demonstrate using a high resolution sound system, that the same USB memory stick when supplied by a very high quality +5V Linear PSU, with vBus +5V disconnected at the PC end of a USB cable sounds noticeably better than when using USB power, even when both .wav files are played from System Memory using cPlay.
I had no problems demonstrating that, and an even more highly contentious issue, to a Sydney based qualifiied E.E. at a listening session several weekends ago. The E.E has wide industry experience, and is also a DIYAudio member.("Owdeo")
Alex

​

 
Now imagine taking those USB sticks and running them outside the PC - on a galvanically isolated - low noise LPS powered unit - power separate from the PC.  But there maybe an additional benefit from the USB>Ethernet>USB packet translation going on.  The files all run fine, even 352K PCM Wave and DSD128 files - no hiccups, super stable.  Running my system 24/7 for weeks nows - with no hangups.  Latency is fine as well.  The three 256GB PNY sticks cost $125 total from Bestbuy and give me approx 740GB of music storage.
 
When the prices drop on the 512GB sticks I can swap them in.  That'll double my storage capacity to 1.4TB.
 
One thing I would like to try is different brands of USB flash drives.  Down the road.

 

[wushuliu]

This is why it would be more interesting if audiophile outfits focused more on power supplies based around lifepo4 and similar. Even with charger active and the lifepo being used more like a cap the sound quality improvement remains. It is relatively inexpensive and it sounds amazing. I got lifepo4 on every clock and digital component i can make work. But not everyone wants to diy, even me sometimes. This should be easy peasy for uptone and ps audio etc. 5v and 3.3v no problem. Higher would be tricker but then thats what the higher tier prices are for right?

Even better there are ssd that run off 3.3v. So lifepo4 strAight to ssd, no 5v to 3.3 regulator. Hmmm... wonder what superdad has to say about all that.

 

[Albrecht]

 Now imagine taking those USB sticks and running them outside the PC

 
 
Very interesting.....
 
I don't want to ask you too many questions en lieu of your upcoming thread. But, am curious if you're plugging those right into the StarTech extenders, - or into your PC?
 
IF you're using the extenders, then it would be adding even more value to those guys. In any case, - (if the USB sticks are plugged into the PC), the Startechs are likely still in play for isolation purposes: I would guess....
 
Cheers RB, - can't wait till your thread is out.

 

[wushuliu]

"AOIP had a clinical quality to it - I would find myself losing interest in the music quickly - it sounded great - but just lacked some emotional connection. I find that USB does this better. "

That was one reason why i moved away from the rednet and took a different path. I agree about usb and although i feel i have found another way to get similar attributes, I'm curious what you've done rb.

 

[kazsud]

I'm as surprised as you are.  I had the USB chain in my office and it sounded very good.  But someone asked if I tried USB sticks in the Startech?  And that got me curious, used an old 8GB as a trial - and it sounded very good.  Bought some new PNY 256GB - three in fact - they were much better. 

So then upgraded the power supply on the REX (MEIYAN 24VDC discrete LPS/Teddy Pardo silver DC power cable)(four port Ethernet receiver end), even better, that just got me thinking about trying it in my main system - well it floored me at how good it sounded.  The USB sticks needed a 100 hours to settle in.  Added JB's (modded to a VBUS blocker) to the REX before the 2G data leg to the Recovery and another at the PC before feeding the data leg of the LEX.  Upgraded the LEX PS to a LPS.  All this just kept improving the SQ. 

Swapped the HD spinner running the OS to a SSD (128GB PNY for $39) - now the system has no moving parts(still using SATA filter on the SSD) - even better.  Last upgrade was Fidelizer Pro running as Purist.

I still can not believe how much the SQ improved over every thing before - not easy but more then well worth it.  This new ultra USB chain is as big, maybe bigger step up over the best I could get from AOIP, as AOIP was over the Uber USB chain I had before.  At a fraction of the cost.  In fact I would have to say the SQ improvement from this source is one of the greatest audio advancements in terms of SQ I have yet heard in 30yrs of audio.

Still have one last experiment to try (replacing the Recovery fed by a TeraDak/Dc iPur) with a LT3042 R-Core 5VDC LPS - directly to the iPur2>F-1.

Oh and had a long interesting conversation with someone in the industry I respect - and they have a killer USB gizmo coming - :tongue_smile: , as well as a audiophile AOIP implementation in the works.  Fun times!

Cheers!

I guess the Apple Music and Tidal people would be better off with Aoip.

Btw I put my SU-1 up for sale.

 

[rb2013]

This is why it would be more interesting if audiophile outfits focused more on power supplies based around lifepo4 and similar. Even with charger active and the lifepo being used more like a cap the sound quality improvement remains. It is relatively inexpensive and it sounds amazing. I got lifepo4 on every clock and digital component i can make work. But not everyone wants to diy, even me sometimes. This should be easy peasy for uptone and ps audio etc. 5v and 3.3v no problem. Higher would be tricker but then thats what the higher tier prices are for right?

Even better there are ssd that run off 3.3v. So lifepo4 strAight to ssd, no 5v to 3.3 regulator. Hmmm... wonder what superdad has to say about all that.

The new totl $16,000 Aurender W20 uses LFP batteries, a SSD drive to cache the music and OXCO clocking...
 
http://www.aurender.com/page/w20

 

[rb2013]

   
 
Very interesting.....
 
I don't want to ask you too many questions en lieu of your upcoming thread. But, am curious if you're plugging those right into the StarTech extenders, - or into your PC?
 
IF you're using the extenders, then it would be adding even more value to those guys. In any case, - (if the USB sticks are plugged into the PC), the Startechs are likely still in play for isolation purposes: I would guess....
 
Cheers RB, - can't wait till your thread is out.

Right into the empty Startech REX USB ports...one reason not to buy the PS Audio LANRover - you only get one port.
 


I think it's kind of ironic - that the initial SQ leap using the Startech led me to the Rednet gear and AOIP - then now full round trip back.
 
My question on using the USB sticks in the Startech (much better SQ then plugged into the PC), is it powering them with clean LPS power or the USB>Ethernet>USB conversion cleaning up the GI issues and SI improvement - or maybe both?

 

[rb2013]

"AOIP had a clinical quality to it - I would find myself losing interest in the music quickly - it sounded great - but just lacked some emotional connection. I find that USB does this better. "

That was one reason why i moved away from the rednet and took a different path. I agree about usb and although i feel i have found another way to get similar attributes, I'm curious what you've done rb.

I love your appoarch  - using the Oppo.  Have you tried playing from a USB stick in it's USB port.
 
I find there is just a 'rightness' to the music now that AOIP lacked.

 

[rb2013]

I guess the Apple Music and Tidal people would be better off with Aoip.

Btw I put my SU-1 up for sale.

The SU-1 is great unit - but limited to it's built in power supply.  The F-1 has much more flexibility.  I have to say until I really tweeked this USB chain the F-1 (LPS powered/ iPur2/etc...)was crushed by my Rednet chain.  So relegated to the office system.  I even tried to sell the Startech and turned down a few low ball offered.  Serendipity!  So happy I returned to playing around with it. 
 
And my many thanks to the chap who PM'd me with the USB stick suggestion - otherwise it would have never occurred to me to even try it.

 

[rb2013]

dup