[Crazy*Carl]

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There are easily audible, measurable differences between headphones. Therefore, even though there are diminishing returns, buying high-end headphones still makes sense if you have the money to spare.
 
If you don't find amps or DACs making a subjective difference, just sell them and buy better headphones with the proceeds..
 
 

 
I absolutely agree with this.  Headphones make the difference, not DAC/AMPs in an age were stuff like an ipod has gotten so good.
 

 

[grokit]

I might as well add that I just went from a Burr-Brown PCM2702-based DAC to a Wolfson WM8524-based DAC in my humble reference system (ALAC>EF5>HE-5). They were pretty identical in their implementation, yet I could tell the difference right off the bat.
 
I had to tear myself away from listening to it all day in fact. There was more clarity, dynamic range, depth, and texture in the Wolfson, and the difference was not subtle to my ears. So obviously it doesn't always take weeks or months to discern a difference.

 

[Crazy*Carl]

I also went from a Burr-Brown PCM2702 to a Wolfsen 85soemthing and guess what, they sounded identical.  I really wished I heard a difference, but I don't.  I can't lie to myself.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Quote:

 
Not gonna happen.  I will go to a local meet if there is one, but I am not falling down the same trap alot have.  My soul will be spared.
 
There is multiple posts on this thread reaffirming my beliefs.

Burying your head up ones own um...vent isn't a valid excuse for being obstinate nor is really a defensible position for your conclusions/assumptions. Why ? It's rather plain I would think, those absolutes you cling to are based on such little actual pratical experience that to make the leaps of logic you are attempting to push as gospel seem as solid as a gossamer flack jacket.
 
Peete.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

 
I absolutely agree with this.  Headphones make the difference, not DAC/AMPs in an age were stuff like an ipod has gotten so good.
 

The  fact that you can even listen to an iPod speaks volumes about what the problem is here.

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

^If the "difference" is subtle enough to take months(!) to properly discern, then what is the point of such high end equipment in the first place?
 
I'm mostly with the op on this one. Headphones provide the greatest differene in sound. File quality is distinguishable, but it is much much more subtle than many on these forums would lead one to believe. And as for amps and sources, as long as it is well designed there will be no difference whatsoever (tube amps excluded).
 
Just think about it. What does a source do? It reads the information on a CD (1s and 0s) and transmits those 1s and 0s forward. Any decently designed modern source is capable of that.

However, it also converts it from digital to analog (i.e. Digital to Analog Converter or DAC). We don't listen in digital people. Also you forget how the operational amplifiers (opamps) significantly change the sound of a piece of source equipment. This change is far from subtle. But yes, I agree with you on the file aspect with it being subtle. Saying all sources are the same is ignorant of what the source does. Also a good amp should not change the sound at all and should be as transparent as possible. The;s amp's main job is the provide the best quality (note quality) power to the headphone's drivers so it can be the most efficient. Think of the amp as like the grade of fuel in a car. Sure 91 unleaded will run a fast car on a racetrack but how efficiently vs. say a higher grade fuel?
 
As much as I dislike car analogies, both technologies can be compared when it comes to dynamic transducer headphones. Think of the headphone drivers as the pistons and fuel to cars as electricity to headphones you'll see how well it can be compared and analogised.

 

[gbacic]

 
Quote:

lol, more fuel to the fire.  A huge audio snob comment here.  You saying you can't even listen to an ipod because its so bad?  Get your headphones out of your ASS.

You're more of a snob than him considering you are saying (after listening to gear that is less than 250 dollars) that all audio gear is useless and that it makes no difference whatsoever, and that anyone who does hear a difference is crazy and needs to be rehabilitated.
And what is so bad about a placebo?

 

[Pyriel0]

Quote:

Oh I haven't updated my sig in a while. I've bought the HD800 on impulse because I got half my tuition back since I am doing part time in my last quarter. It is exactly what most people say it is. Very detailed, quite light in bass, and harsh trebles. I've tried different amps, GS1, my own, some OTL amps, and dare I say my portables (for fun) and they all exhibt the same harsh highs. Now people told me this and this amp will cure the highs. I said thanks but didn't listen to them because there is no "magical" amp that can cure something that is present in the headphones. These peak at a point where I find massive sibilance and no amp is going to change that. If it does that means the amp is flavoured and rolls off the top end which it should do with every headphone and thats not a good thing (plus the amps in question are over a grand and there is no sense is spending more money on an amp then headphones). A neutral amp is only going to amplify (BECAUSE THATS WHAT AN AMP DOES) the sibliance and not cure it.
 
 
 
I might as well use that money to find the perfect headphone which doesn't have these issues.

I like how I say an amp should have no noise, distortion, low rise/fall times; and then you say the same thing but act like its an argument against me. Sorry you didn't like the hd800 lol. Next time try to say something useful instead of spinning nothing into more of nothing.
 
And btw "(plus the amps in question are over a grand and there is no sense is spending more money on an amp then headphones)": do you spend more on a computer or video game system than a game? You know why thats done? To make sure the game runs correctly!

 

[grokit]

Quote:

I also went from a Burr-Brown PCM2702 to a Wolfsen 85soemthing and guess what, they sounded identical.  I really wished I heard a difference, but I don't.  I can't lie to myself.

Oh well, everyone hears different. I am sorry that you can't hear the difference with your Sparrow, frankly that seems like your best bet. Try doing the HD600 mods plus a 650 cable on your 580s and some lossless rips into the Sparrow, if you can't hear a difference at that point you probably never will. Lucky for your wallet anyways!

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Quote:

 

You're more of a snob than him considering you are saying (after listening to gear that is less than 250 dollars) that all audio gear is useless and that it makes no difference whatsoever, and that anyone who does hear a difference is crazy and needs to be rehabilitated.
And what is so bad about a placebo?

Not necessarily no difference, just minimal difference and not enough even to remotely warrant a purchase.
 
And an admission to placebo! Unbelievable!
 

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Quote:

Oh well, everyone hears different. I am sorry that you can't hear the difference with your Sparrow, frankly that seems like your best bet. Try doing the HD600 mods on your 580s and some lossless rips into the Sparrow, if you can't hear a difference at that point you probably never will. Lucky for your wallet anyways!

I already listen to a majority lossless.  And I have the HD650 grills and 650 cable on my HD580s (the absolute epitome of head-fi idiocy) - whoww! did they really make a difference - NOT!

 

[Pyriel0]

Carl I'm done with this thread after this post. Test something that is actually high end before you complain left and right. 
 
Edit; I'm sorry I meant test high end stuff with other high end stuff to see if there is a weak link.  NOT what you have done. "I tested a bunch of $200 stuff and can't tell a difference so $1000+ stuff must be no different".

 

[gbacic]

Lots of users here (even ones with Supremus status) say that placebo affects (psychoacoustics) do happen within audio, but they also say that if there is a perceived benefit, then the money was well spent.
 
Why do you even come here anymore? I'm not trying to be rude its just that you seem to like to troll people.

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

Lots of users here (even ones with Supremus status) say that placebo affects (psychoacoustics) do happen within audio, but they also say that if there is a perceived benefit, then the money was well spent.
 
Why do you even come here anymore? I'm not trying to be rude its just that you seem to like to troll people.

I'm ones of these people and what!? Way to label people. Yes, I'm a 'truth activist' as well and so are many in the Sound Science forum, but I don't go trolling like Carl. Honestly Carl, 'tis getting old.
It's more if there is a perceived benefit AND if there's scientific-ly valid evidence to back it up, then I will hold that belief. Supremus status means nothing except post count. And yes, I know my 4chan style memes and forums too so the troll detector is upgraded here. If you really want to see good trolling on Head-fi, try Patrick85. The good trolls are ones in which you can't tell if they're trolling or not.

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Quote:

Lots of users here (even ones with Supremus status) say that placebo affects (psychoacoustics) do happen within audio, but they also say that if there is a perceived benefit, then the money was well spent.
 
Why do you even come here anymore? I'm not trying to be rude its just that you seem to like to troll people.

That is so sad. It just shows you this is all a bunch if BS.  Open your eyes people.
 
I am here because I don't want other new people to fall into the same trap I got into.  Thankfully I was objective enough to overcome it eventually.
 
Dont worry, I won't be here for much longer.
 
But I will be out side the CAN JAM 2010 with a group picketing.. STOP THIS MADNESS