Audio-GD NFB-2 & NFB-3 Delivery & Impression Thread
Jun 14, 2011 at 10:21 PM Post #1,066 of 1,577


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Just wondering... those of you that ordered the Digital Interface... did you get it with Solen or Nover caps? Any audible differences between the two?



The Solen's (MKP) are film caps while the NoVer brand are electrolytic. Two different types of cap altogether. Replacing the Solen MKP's with something better (of the same uf value) should bring a SQ improvement (depends on the replacement though).
 
Peete.
 
Jun 15, 2011 at 1:21 AM Post #1,067 of 1,577


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I think I'll demur to a true expert like PricklyPeete on this one.  I think the DI would still offer some sonic improvement, or they would not sell a version of it that has both a USB and coaxial input, for people feeding it a signal from an S/PDIF source (like a CD transport) and then going into the DAC from there.  But my efforts to explain why it would improve the sound (at least in theory; all individual implementations vary) would probably not be technically literate.  So we'll wait and see what someone else has to say on the subject...
 

 
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..........thanks for the compliment
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Quote:
This largely depends on the quality of your SPDIF output. But in most(all?) cases the DI would be noticeable improvement. All the jitter specs of SPDIF interfaces that are published (e.g. WM8805 v.s. DIR 9001) are just indications of what the chip is capable of. If the quality of the incoming signal is better, the interface chip has to make fewer corrections and the performance is better.
 
The output of the DI is much cleaner and low-jitter than any standard SPDIF output of a computer. Hence the input receiver has to work less hard. Resulting in a lower jitter overall.

 
 



X 2
 
I'll add to the above excellent info with the following.
 
Over the past decade computer main-board manufacturers have had little incentive to improve upon the SQ side of the "everything but the kitchen sink" motherboard designs that are getting harder to manufacturer (as speeds rise) and feature creep as well as performance expectation  runs smack dab into marketplace comp, competitive MSRP pricing and unrealistic (IMO at least) consumer expectations. That being said the last 4 or 5 years motherboards have improved upon their audio chip sets to a great degree vs the days of old (not that long ago actually speaking).
 
My own frustrations over those years with computers in general WRT my own attempts at finding a gear combination for use as a half decent audio platform (without having to resort to spending oodles of money on Pro hardware) was made easier by concentrating not on the motherboard itself (which now have as a routine feature an SPDIF output among the other connections packed tightly around it) but by focusing on sound cards themselves. For years the only real players in this field (at the consumer level) used half baked hardware audio processors ( much like the on board sound processing on motherboards) which gave lukewarm to down right awful performance (compared to even an entry level serious audio system). For example the Creative SC series starting with the SBLive claimed some serious performance in it's marketing but upon further investigation Creative admitted that it's processor would re sample everything at 48khz regardless of the original bit/sample rate's were. The EMU 101K IIRC had a flaw in hardware that necessitated the conversion....before the X-FI based cards were introduced all Creative cards could not pass bit perfect data through their SPDIF outputs.....even so the Creative SPDIF was still better than all of the mobo SPDIF outputs I had a chance to compare. I have used mostly ASUS motherboards over the years with a few exceptions thrown in for variety. My latest board is a Asus Maximus Formula Deluxe (X38 chip set) that has a decent SPDIF header (HD Audio/SoundMAX codec) and a much improved HD audio card (PCIE type) vs the AC 97 spec that had been the standard (or sub standard IMO) for years previous....Long story shorter even the Max Formula mobo's SPDIF header with it's upgraded HD Audio hardware proved to be not much of a performer, although audibly better vs the older AC 97 spec gear for serious listening. Why ? It's pretty simple really...all of those high freq timing pathways, the fact that a computer main-board is just teeming with digital EMI/RFI etc the close proximity of the traces on the motherboard itself...the complexity of the circuit, the various PSU components all have influence over that SPDIF pathway. No amount of careful layout can isolate it enough from the other components on the motherboard ( it's a wonder the SQ from the Asus Max Formula SPDIF header is as good as it is). Getting back to the X-Fi based cards....having been duped by Creative with the SBLive series not delivering the goods (because of the EMU hardware flaw) the news that Creative had finally designed a brand new (from the ground up) audio processor that could pass data without manipulation I set about searching the usual online haunts to find out which manufacturer  had the best implementation of Creative's base design optimized for audio use. I settled on the Auzen Prelude (which had a SPDIF input with AKM ADC and the all important COAX output bypassing it's internal DAC).  Still with me ?
 
Over the short term I believe built in SPDIF headers (PC or MAC) are a valuable half decent option for casual listening,gaming, HT use but as a serious audio system the better option is to look at a sound card solution to be used solely as a transport. I have yet to upgrade to the latest I7 based PC's (I build my own PC's and have for the last 20 years) but I'm willing to bet the latest and greatest motherboard chip sets still cannot overcome the conflicting issues mentioned in the previous paragraph to enough of a degree to declare SC's obsolete. To be fair there have many generations of  excellent sounding Pro Audio cards available for the last 10 years but the cost of those have been rather high and they usually require some supporting hardware (and software) that is overly complex or downright inconvenient to the average joe/jane. The cost is another factor, although entry level pro gear is reasonable you run into the same performance issue as the built in audio of motherboard's themselves...the SQ isn't up to par vs an entry level, but half decent, CDP/DVDP used as a transport. So what is the average person supposed to do ? Many fall back to the USB option which in it's own right (although promising at first look) runs into even more problems than built in audio (with it's SPDIF header). TOSlink (except ST Glass) is awful, period. The technical reasons for it's dismal performance come down to the actual interface itself...the idea behind it is ingenious and with proper materials used (ST glass) it can be just as good as SPDIF  but the cost of that particular method and the lack of affordable cables for it killed off interest pretty quickly vs the far cheaper high performance COAX  type.  To sum it all up the best performance for my system (hardware choices) turned out to be a consumer level SC (that had to have a standard RCA SPDIF output to even be considered) used solely as a transport to my DAC. The ole "keep it simple" solution is my modus operandi when it comes to digital.
 
I'm fairly certain the A-gd DI would improve upon the performance of a motherboards built in SPDIF output but it won't solve the main technical issue surrounding that built in output. In my mind a better way to spend that money would be to sink it into a sound card capable of bit perfect transfer that uses as it's primary digital output an SPDIF connection (to be precise RCA  COAX). I'd be even happier if a SC company would offer BNC instead of RCA.......still waiting on that one. A quality SC with that RCA output eliminates the need for a DI box altogether, simplifying the signal pathway while reducing negative impact on the quality of the signal itself. Less (manipulation via software / hardware) is more
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I hope that was helpful...sorry for the long post.
 
Peete.
 
Jun 15, 2011 at 2:00 AM Post #1,068 of 1,577
Thumbs up for an enlightening post Pricklely Peete.  
 
Do you think the simplest way to circumvent most of these problems (short of buying pro hardware) is to use a CD transport?  
 
Edit: Also, are you able to hear a noticeable difference between your CD transport's output to your DAC vs. your PC playing the same CD outputting to the DAC?
 
Jun 15, 2011 at 6:36 AM Post #1,069 of 1,577
wow, ok thanks Peete and Middachten
 
I have onboard audio, built this pc just before I got into building an headphone rig around....
 
Jun 15, 2011 at 8:15 AM Post #1,071 of 1,577
Thanks for the insight Peete. That was a good read.
 
Though, USB, if properly implemented, can bring good results (sometimes even better than SPDIF/Coax) due to it being separated from the rest of the circuitry. To achieve good result you'll have to give good, stable, clean power to the PC/Mac/whatever so that the USB can work effortlessly.
A good cable will also take care of eventual external interferences and the DAC will (should?) reclock the signal to eliminate the jitter and give a clean, almost bit-perfect sound.
 
Jun 15, 2011 at 8:17 AM Post #1,072 of 1,577


Quote:
Thanks for the insight Peete. That was a good read.
 
Though, USB, if properly implemented, can bring good results (sometimes even better than SPDIF/Coax) due to it being separated from the rest of the circuitry. To achieve good result you'll have to give good, stable, clean power to the PC/Mac/whatever so that the USB can work effortlessly.
A good cable will also take care of eventual external interferences and the DAC will (should?) reclock the signal to eliminate the jitter and give a clean, almost bit-perfect sound.


Completely agree here. I stopped using the SPDIF on my laptop a while ago when I discovered using the USB cable to my DAC provided better results.
 
 
Jun 15, 2011 at 9:03 AM Post #1,073 of 1,577
Laptops, when on battery, are given the cleanest, most stable power.
To achieve the same on a desktop we should be using a powerful UPS but the charge wouldn't last enough for a long listening session :p
 
...or you can use an ATX power supply and get the 12v out of the graphic card's molex, which is very very stable and clean, especially if you use a Cooler Master, Zotac or other hi-end power supplies.
 
...or again, use a linear PSU which I don't recommend at all: your electric bill will not be happy about it.
 
Jun 15, 2011 at 10:26 AM Post #1,074 of 1,577
I'm using my previous DAC, the Musiland Monitor 02 US, as a "DI". Ordered the Audio-GD made Canare coaxial cable along with my NFB-2. I've finally got it all hooked up (the deliveryman came at 10pm!) and really like what I'm hearing.
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Jun 15, 2011 at 1:20 PM Post #1,075 of 1,577


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Thumbs up for an enlightening post Pricklely Peete.  
 
Do you think the simplest way to circumvent most of these problems (short of buying pro hardware) is to use a CD transport?  
 
Edit: Also, are you able to hear a noticeable difference between your CD transport's output to your DAC vs. your PC playing the same CD outputting to the DAC?

In my NFB-2 review I write a bit about this. I've compared with an Arcam CD player. The performance of my Macbook/TC-electronic 'transport' was pretty close to the CD player output. The SB Touch output (basically also a small computer system running a Linux derivate) was only just a notch below that. Mind you, all comparing at 16/44. When I compared the original CD with a 24/96 release of the same album, both the computer and the SBTouch where better. A CD player can't play those files 
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The review can be found here: http://www.head-fi.org/products/audio-gd-nfb-2-and-nfb-3/reviews/5008 
 
 
 
Jun 16, 2011 at 1:41 AM Post #1,076 of 1,577


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An update of my "journey" so far.
 
January: Lurk around this thread
April 14th: First enquiry with Edwin
May 18th: Finalised order
May 22nd: Paid up through PayPal
May 26th: Audio-GD acknowledged payment
June 11th: Supposedly shipped via TNT
June 14th: Received tracking number from Audio-GD. Goods are in HK for transit
??? ??th: Become a happy owner of a Audio-GD NFB-2
 
I've got to figure out where to place the new DAC and the other existing gear before it actually arrives, which I hope is soon enough.
 
Update: Clearing customs now!


I have started my  "journey" 
 
june 7th received payment
june 16th still awaiting the moment my supposed in stock NFB2 will be shipped 
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Hopefully it will arrive before my vacation 
 
 
Jun 16, 2011 at 5:55 AM Post #1,077 of 1,577
I've started my adventure with audio-gd too.
 
on june 14th they received the payment.
 
Now I suppose that they have to "build" it or make the burn-in.
I have ordered it with the DIR9001 chip: I hope that it will not cause some sort of delay.
 
Jun 18, 2011 at 4:06 AM Post #1,080 of 1,577
Been reading a ton of these threads and learning.  Have a NFB-3.  Love the weight of the DAC - bass, mid, high all have a darker/fatter/meatier tone.  However, it sounds like a lower resolution DAC than the HRT Music Streamer II+.  The Monitor II+ also sound a bit more airy if that's the right word.   I wish the NFB-3 could keep that weighty tone, but have better resolution.  It sounds a bit like a lower bitrate MP3 when I compare the two....
 
Anyone else find that or am I out to lunch....:)
 
Thanks,
UL
 

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