Audio-GD NFB-15.32 Delivery & Impression Thread
Mar 12, 2015 at 1:05 AM Post #691 of 961
@Gloomy Moonie, if you don't want to deal with audio-gd drivers at all, you could get a well supported usb to spdif converter.  That way you only need drivers for the converter and pass the spdif output to your nfb-15.  Somebody else here would have to give an example of such a converter that was well supported on windows.  I run linux, so I don't really know what audio devices are perfectly supported on windows. I can't comment on whether the modi/magni combo sounds better, but they should work fine with the headphones you have based off of their specs. While you still have your nfb-15 you might want to check out the different jumper settings to see if you like one of them. I know that for me at least, I had to monkey around with them before it met my tastes.
 
Mar 12, 2015 at 8:34 AM Post #692 of 961
The first thing I did was of course address Kingwa with this issue, to which he replied with saying that it shouldn't be audible on normal listening levels. 
This leads me to conclude that it the hiss is normal to some degree, which does not correspond with a good number of you who claim that there is no hiss. I don't think it is necessary to continue with depicting the possible explanations, as I feel that I've made my point.
Moving on.


Never have I said that I use it on 12 o'clock on high gain, I merely notice it starting from 12 o'clock, for both gain options. This is why I prefer using high gain, as I don't come nearly as close to 12 o'clock as with low gain, on which I sometimes go past that, giving me a reason to be concerned.
 
No.

  1. Connected via the included USB cable.
  2. Foobar2000, see settings here.
  3. I attempted a blind test on this one, so bear with me:
    • Method: I've downloaded a 320 kbps and a 24bit 192kHz version of each of the two tracks available here, and using my K7XX and K272 headphones, tried to guess which is which, 10 times for each pair.
    • I've tried setting playback to random and shuffle, but in nether of them can the same track be played again. Fortunately randomly clicking on Playback>Random proved to be an effective measure, so I've set a shortcut for that in keyboard settings.
    • To control for volume I've set the Processing to "apply gain" under ReplayGain in Playback preferences.
    • After each guess I was checking which file res. I was listening to to write it down, as doing that after the whole 10 trials would have been more difficult than I can tolerate, and playback statistics weren't of any use.
    • In between each trial, I've had one "unblinded" listen, so as to reduce confusion. After that I've manually skipped (using the above shortcut) an indefinite amount of times, to reduce the expectation bias at least to some degree.
    • The screen was nowhere in my field of vision.
    • The headphones were worn for a few minutes prior to testing with the tracks playing, for adaptation purposes.
    • At times where I knew I wasn't analyzing but merely guessing weren't included.
    • Initial results: Track #1: K7XX - 3/10 (W,W,W,W,R,R,W,W,R,R). Track #2: K272 - 8/10 (R,R,R,R,R,R,W,R,W,R); K7XX - 6/10 (R,R,W,W,R,R,W,R,W,R). R - right, W- wrong.
    • On my last set of trials, which was with the K272's, I've thought of a method to compensate somewhat for the capacity of our auditory memory, which was to do everything as described above, but make the guess not on the first, but on the following track, so as to allow for some context.  And what do you know, my the results changed drastically.
    • 4'th attempt results: K272 - 10/10.
    • Conclusions: Just look at what lengths I've went to to arrive at that last result, 'nuff said. Seriously though, I admit that at first I thought that I won't find any difference whatsoever, and rightfully so. But even though technically there is a perceivable difference, it doesn't mean it's significant. Maybe with better gear it is more easily discerned, but on a practical level I've made it clear, at least to myself, that there is no point in hi-res. Not to even mention all of those expensive DAP$.
    • Comments: First of all, the obvious volume difference between the versions. Knowing this alone should be enough to get a sense of the validity of the difference between high and low res.. I've been keeping it in mind after volume adjustment as well, which could have contributed to my results.  Then again, it is said that the increase in volume is perceived as an increase in quality, maybe it works the other way around as well :wink:. Second is that despite all my efforts, those comparison attempts still felt like guesswork, even at that last attempt.
  4. Haven't tried other inputs yet, which could change in the upcoming weeks. That is, if I won't return the unit before that. 

The only explanation I can think of as to why I don't hear any difference, aside from not having the "audiophile ear" of course, is that the NFB-15's DAC is off. But honestly it just doesn't sound plausible, no matter how I look at it.

Too bad I didn't hear that before buying it. Having the blue screens once or twice a day, but that's the least of what's wrong with the driver. Ever since I've got the NFB-15 my computer is much slower, sometimes I have extreme stutter when I watch Youtube videos on x2 speed, and Foobar's spectrum visualization has low framerate. Oddly enough, when I switch to, say, ASIO4ALL, the framerate goes back to normal, but all other "symptops" remain. Maybe it's a good idea for anyone who's still on the fence after reading this to just install the driver and see how their system behaves.


You not being able to tell difference between 'hi res' and 320kb shouldn't really be a issue. Most people (essentially all) can't. I personally just use Spotify premium.

I use my NFB15 with HE500 and K7xx. I don't usually go above even 9o'clock on the volume knob and that's with low gain. Never had any driver issues or experienced hissing, my laptop is running Windows 7 and I got the laptop back in 2011....
For reference I'm running the audio gd USB driver 1 and my unit is post august 2014. Have you tried just running direct sound at 24bit/44.1k?
 
Mar 12, 2015 at 8:48 AM Post #693 of 961

 
I added a mains filter preceeding the trafo of NFB 15.32, and it sounds better in imaging. I used two inductors from an old mainboard and a spare .1uf/400V WIMA capacitor. No ground on this one, it sounds better this way. I also noticed than swapping AC polarity affects the sound. Just my 2c.
 
Mar 12, 2015 at 2:57 PM Post #694 of 961
Audio-GD NFB-15 with  MW8741 or NFB-11 with ES9018 ?
I have a headphone DT-990 Pro 250 Ohms.
Same Headphone Amp it seems. 100€ difference. and 32bit/384khz for NFB-11 (32bit/192khz for NFB-15)
Which one ?
 
Mar 12, 2015 at 7:52 PM Post #695 of 961
You not being able to tell difference between 'hi res' and 320kb shouldn't really be a issue. Most people (essentially all) can't. I personally just use Spotify premium.

I use my NFB15 with HE500 and K7xx. I don't usually go above even 9o'clock on the volume knob and that's with low gain. Never had any driver issues or experienced hissing, my laptop is running Windows 7 and I got the laptop back in 2011....
For reference I'm running the audio gd USB driver 1 and my unit is post august 2014. Have you tried just running direct sound at 24bit/44.1k?


Do me a favor. Turn on the unit, set to HP, plug in your K7XX. Without music playing, turn the volume up all the way.
Let me know if you still get no hiss. If you do, find out where it starts.
 
Mar 13, 2015 at 4:00 AM Post #696 of 961
 
Having the blue screens once or twice a day, but that's the least of what's wrong with the driver. Ever since I've got the NFB-15 my computer is much slower, sometimes I have extreme stutter when I watch Youtube videos on x2 speed, and Foobar's spectrum visualization has low framerate. Oddly enough, when I switch to, say, ASIO4ALL, the framerate goes back to normal, but all other "symptops" remain. Maybe it's a good idea for anyone who's still on the fence after reading this to just install the driver and see how their system behaves.

Are you still using Windows XP? Switch to Windows 7 x86 if so :)
 
Mar 13, 2015 at 6:26 AM Post #697 of 961
Do me a favor. Turn on the unit, set to HP, plug in your K7XX. Without music playing, turn the volume up all the way.
Let me know if you still get no hiss. If you do, find out where it starts.

It starts just before 3 o'clock on the volume dial on low gain, with minimal hiss gain till full volume. If you're going past 12 o'clock on low gain you should be using high gain anyway. And if you are listening at such high volumes you wont have great hearing for long. In what way is this test relevant?
 
Mar 13, 2015 at 12:58 PM Post #698 of 961
It starts just before 3 o'clock on the volume dial on low gain, with minimal hiss gain till full volume. If you're going past 12 o'clock on low gain you should be using high gain anyway. And if you are listening at such high volumes you wont have great hearing for long. In what way is this test relevant?


I was asking to confirm unit consistency. The original poster, another, and I had similar starting points for the hiss. This seems to be the same regardless of gain.
This helps me to decide if it's simply an issue with a few units or just the overall build.

In my previous post I mentioned that normally I'm at 10-11 on the dial on low gain. That doesn't hold true all the time. It's perfectly reasonable to for an average user to reach 3 using, let's say, 600ohm headphones listening to 192/24 tracks. Add in hearing loss in older generations and it is very possible.

Now, at least three of us report the hiss starting somewhere between 12-1 on either gain setting, so reaching that point is easy on high res tracks and many orchestral ones as well. I was able to despite being someone that listens a lower levels. Yet, three people's experiences aren't necessarily representative of the whole. That's why I asked, to increase the sample size of the data.

I enjoy the unit. It does everything I want/need in a small package. However, just because I like it doesn't change the fact that for me, the hiss is there and can affect a portion of my listening.
 
Mar 13, 2015 at 6:05 PM Post #699 of 961
  @Gloomy Moonie, if you don't want to deal with audio-gd drivers at all, you could get a well supported usb to spdif converter.  That way you only need drivers for the converter and pass the spdif output to your nfb-15.  Somebody else here would have to give an example of such a converter that was well supported on windows.  I run linux, so I don't really know what audio devices are perfectly supported on windows. I can't comment on whether the modi/magni combo sounds better, but they should work fine with the headphones you have based off of their specs. While you still have your nfb-15 you might want to check out the different jumper settings to see if you like one of them. I know that for me at least, I had to monkey around with them before it met my tastes.

Thanks for trying to help, but my problem lies deeper than the lousy drivers, or the hiss for that matter. 
 
Mar 13, 2015 at 6:46 PM Post #702 of 961
You not being able to tell difference between 'hi res' and 320kb shouldn't really be a issue. Most people (essentially all) can't. I personally just use Spotify premium.

Originally Posted by Gloomy Moonie /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 
4'th attempt results: K272 - 10/10.

I didn't say I couldn't tell a difference, even though it could have appeared that way. What I did say is that even though there is a (negligible) difference, it doesn't necessarily better or worsen the sound. Heck, try to differentiate between high and low res. yourself, you'll see what I mean. The only condition is to use the same or stricter methods than what I've described, but an A-B testing device with built-in relay gain would be best, if you have access to that.
 
Mar 13, 2015 at 6:46 PM Post #703 of 961
 
 
I added a mains filter preceeding the trafo of NFB 15.32, and it sounds better in imaging. I used two inductors from an old mainboard and a spare .1uf/400V WIMA capacitor. No ground on this one, it sounds better this way. I also noticed than swapping AC polarity affects the sound. Just my 2c.

Interesting. How did you determine that it sounds better? Would you recommend removing a ground connection, and wouldn't this potentially increase noise?


 
Mar 13, 2015 at 7:51 PM Post #705 of 961
@Kamakahah I've converted you, haven't I? :wink:
 
Allow me to go on a tangent here and ask you about alternative gear. I've noticed that among your vast array or gear are the Magni/Modi. Could you give a brief summary on your experience with those, in the context of the NFB-15? Does the Modi have any real difference in sound over the WM8741? Does the NFB-15 sound any more "refined", or do (internal) looks deceive?
Also, given that yours, and most other posters' opinion differs from mine when it comes to the NFB-15's DAC quality, perhaps you could point me to tracks in which the improvement is over the on-board chip is actually noticeable? As unlikely as it is, I still accept the possibility in which I am missing something, and one of the few left candidates for that something are simply music choices. @Change is Good, feel free to join in.
 
@Jakkal, could you touch on tube amps? Does the Project Polaris justify it's price, and the hype around Garage1217? Have you had any experience with any of the more "mainstream" options, like the Little Dot, DarkVoice, BottleHead? Do you think that the more economical Bravo amps are capable of conveying the idea of how a tube is supposed to sound like? Or are they not there quite there yet, in terms of price:performance?
 
P.S. I apologize for the flood of posts, but replying to each post separately seemed more orderly, and I didn't want to make another monster-post.
 

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