[FredA]

Actually, I found USB input to be full of “errors” in my venture with the R2R-7. I had to replace the internal wirings to finally get to love it. I just wonder if you have that isolator stack. If you don’t, you can try different DSP ? I know Dithering and PLLEN can help

There is no settings with the r2r 11, not even a dsp. It is very basic. It is a very simple design. All digitals inputs go straight to each da-8 modules, which do eveything.

 

[Whitigir]

There is no settings with the r2r 11, not even a dsp. It is very basic. It is a very simple design. All digitals inputs go straight to each da-8 modules, which do eveything.

That is unfortunate, then just fix the usb module ?

 

[FredA]

That is unfortunate, then just fix the usb module ?

Maybe redo the wiring...

 

[MelonHead]

Test is done on my Asus Zenbook using FB2000 and Jriver.
Same digital noise, same pattern always with native DSD, or DoP playback. No problem with with PCM conversion, and with PCM based lossless and lossy music.

Even if I love the characteristics and capabilities of this DAC/AMP, until I receive a real solution -not workaround as this feature is definitely indicated in the Audio-GD website and advertised everywhere- from you or from the manufacturer, i have to assume that bitperfect DSD playback is problematic and faulty at least with my R2R-11.
I hope this problem only belongs to my sample or a few other units, and it is not a general design or assembly failure.

PS.: I consider buying the firmware upgrade cable, but right now I can't find the former information on audio-gd website. Would somebody be so kind and share an e-bay link with the officially recommended cable?

 

[FredA]

Test is done on my Asus Zenbook using FB2000 and Jriver.
Same digital noise, same pattern always with native DSD, or DoP playback. No problem with with PCM conversion, and with PCM based lossless and lossy music.

Even if I love the characteristics and capabilities of this DAC/AMP, until I receive a real solution -not workaround as this feature is definitely indicated in the Audio-GD website and advertised everywhere- from you or from the manufacturer, i have to assume that bitperfect DSD playback is problematic and faulty at least with my R2R-11.
I hope this problem only belongs to my sample or a few other units, and it is not a general design or assembly failure.

PS.: I consider buying the firmware upgrade cable, but right now I can't find the former information on audio-gd website. Would somebody be so kind and share an e-bay link with the officially recommended cable?

Have you considered returning your unit to have it checked?

As for the usb programmer, it has to be compatible with XC2C64 CPLD. Ask the vendor or read the ebay description carefully. I have one on order, Once i get it, i'll be able to recommend it if works.

 

[gLer]

Test is done on my Asus Zenbook using FB2000 and Jriver.
Same digital noise, same pattern always with native DSD, or DoP playback. No problem with with PCM conversion, and with PCM based lossless and lossy music.

Even if I love the characteristics and capabilities of this DAC/AMP, until I receive a real solution -not workaround as this feature is definitely indicated in the Audio-GD website and advertised everywhere- from you or from the manufacturer, i have to assume that bitperfect DSD playback is problematic and faulty at least with my R2R-11.
I hope this problem only belongs to my sample or a few other units, and it is not a general design or assembly failure.

PS.: I consider buying the firmware upgrade cable, but right now I can't find the former information on audio-gd website. Would somebody be so kind and share an e-bay link with the officially recommended cable?

The bad news is that this is a general flaw in all the R2R-11 units that I’m personally aware of. It’s limited to DSD playback like you say, and mainly noticeable in quieter passages of classical and jazz music. In fact, most of my classical DSDs are now unplayable on the R2R-11, and so I’ve set Audirvana to convert DSD to PCM on the fly. Still sounds fantastic, but of course if you want native DSD, too bad.

Also as far as I know there’s no fix for it. They’ve supposedly fixed the pops, but I haven’t yet heard any feedback on whether or not the firmware update addresses the DSD issue. In my many discussions with Kingwa - via my local agent - he claims the noise is there because as a NOS dac, it doesn’t and won’t filter any low level noise artefacts - even though he couldn’t explain why these were limited to DSD playback.

Since ladder dacs have no way to actually play DSD files natively, I can only assume it’s a fault with the DSD playback chip or module or whatever else they’re using to actually “play” native DSD, if in fact it’s being played back natively at all.

Bottom line, if you have lots of DSDs - especially classical and jazz - and insist on playing them without PCM conversion, then however much it pains me to say it, the R2R-11 is (currently) not the solution. I really hope it gets fixed, otherwise it won’t be my long term solution either, however brilliant the sound (and it is brilliant with all my headphones).

PS. An even bigger question for me is if the same noise is present in the R2R-1 and R2R-2 dacs, because one of those were going to be my upgrade path. However if they also have issues with DSD playback, I’ll be forced to look elsewhere, and probably abandon Audio-GD altogether. I really hope it doesn’t come to that.

 

[Whitigir]

Native DSD playback on R2R7 also have the pop sounds. That is because the chips are constantly in PCM modes, and has to switch internally to do native DSD, at the end of a DSD file, the chips is back to PCM, and when another DSD is being played back. It would then switch again, so the “pop”

My R2R-7 did have hiss and noises while playing back Jazz or acoustic, and i found out that it was due to the internal wirings of the Amanero modules. What USB interface does R2R11 use ? Is there a picture ?

 

[gLer]

Native DSD playback on R2R7 also have the pop sounds. That is because the chips are constantly in PCM modes, and has to switch internally to do native DSD, at the end of a DSD file, the chips is back to PCM, and when another DSD is being played back. It would then switch again, so the “pop”

My R2R-7 did have hiss and noises while playing back Jazz or acoustic, and i found out that it was due to the internal wirings of the Amanero modules. What USB interface does R2R11 use ? Is there a picture ?

Wow, pops and noises on their TOTL dac!? That’s unacceptable. On a $350 maybe, but on a $2500 dac? I’d go crazy if that happened to me, and it would be sent straight back.

Yes the R2R-11 has an Amanero interface - which I suspect is the issue. Were your R2R-7 problems solved?

 

[Whitigir]

Wow, pops and noises on their TOTL dac!? That’s unacceptable. On a $350 maybe, but on a $2500 dac? I’d go crazy if that happened to me, and it would be sent straight back.

Yes the R2R-11 has an Amanero interface - which I suspect is the issue. Were your R2R-7 problems solved?

I actually don’t mind the “pop” much. He could have put in a “soft mute” into the chain, but it “degrades” the sound performances.

Yes, the problem was solved with USB Amanero

If you have Coax/SPdIF, I would recommend that input instead, because fixing Amanero is a bit of a work. You can ask Kingwa to fix or upgrade it though

 

[gLer]

I actually don’t mind the “pop” much. He could have put in a “soft mute” into the chain, but it “degrades” the sound performances.

Yes, the problem was solved with USB Amanero

If you have Coax/SPdIF, I would recommend that input instead, because fixing Amanero is a bit of a work. You can ask Kingwa to fix or upgrade it though

I don’t mind the pops either to be honest, and they’ve been fixed with firmware.

How was the Amanero problem solved in the R2R-7? Was it a hardware fix or firmware update? The R2R-11 doesn’t support DSD over coax or optical, only USB.

 

[Whitigir]

I don’t mind the pops either to be honest, and they’ve been fixed with firmware.

How was the Amanero problem solved in the R2R-7? Was it a hardware fix or firmware update? The R2R-11 doesn’t support DSD over coax or optical, only USB.

It depends on how severe the problems is. The fix was found due to the Brass Pins connections between the modules stack. Also the Ribbon cables which is only 30awg does not help anything, so it is wires replacement, hardware level

 

[gLer]

It depends on how severe the problems is. The fix was found due to the Brass Pins connections between the modules stack. Also the Ribbon cables which is only 30awg does not help anything, so it is wires replacement, hardware level

Wow, I can’t see that being offered as a fix for the R2R-11. I wonder if the R2R-1/2 have the same noise issues?

 

[MelonHead]

Have you considered returning your unit to have it checked?

As for the usb programmer, it has to be compatible with XC2C64 CPLD. Ask the vendor or read the ebay description carefully. I have one on order, Once i get it, i'll be able to recommend it if works.

I'm waiting for my (used) Beyerdynamic Amiron Home which I traded from a fellow US Head-fier. I don't want to make any long-term decision until this HP will be tested thoroughly.
Beside that I'm waiting further response from Magna-Hifi as they have replied on my e-mail yesterday evening. Today I sent them the former linked records with the problem and the link to this thread as well.
Thanks for the suggesstion regarding the cable!

 

[MelonHead]

The bad news is that this is a general flaw in all the R2R-11 units that I’m personally aware of. It’s limited to DSD playback like you say, and mainly noticeable in quieter passages of classical and jazz music. In fact, most of my classical DSDs are now unplayable on the R2R-11, and so I’ve set Audirvana to convert DSD to PCM on the fly. Still sounds fantastic, but of course if you want native DSD, too bad.

Also as far as I know there’s no fix for it. They’ve supposedly fixed the pops, but I haven’t yet heard any feedback on whether or not the firmware update addresses the DSD issue. In my many discussions with Kingwa - via my local agent - he claims the noise is there because as a NOS dac, it doesn’t and won’t filter any low level noise artefacts - even though he couldn’t explain why these were limited to DSD playback.

Since ladder dacs have no way to actually play DSD files natively, I can only assume it’s a fault with the DSD playback chip or module or whatever else they’re using to actually “play” native DSD, if in fact it’s being played back natively at all.

Bottom line, if you have lots of DSDs - especially classical and jazz - and insist on playing them without PCM conversion, then however much it pains me to say it, the R2R-11 is (currently) not the solution. I really hope it gets fixed, otherwise it won’t be my long term solution either, however brilliant the sound (and it is brilliant with all my headphones).

PS. An even bigger question for me is if the same noise is present in the R2R-1 and R2R-2 dacs, because one of those were going to be my upgrade path. However if they also have issues with DSD playback, I’ll be forced to look elsewhere, and probably abandon Audio-GD altogether. I really hope it doesn’t come to that.

Thanks for your useful reply!
Same experiences, same ideas and same unanswered questions. I totally agree with you gLer.
I'm still looking for other owners who can test this problem in native DSD mode.

 

[FredA]

Wow, I can’t see that being offered as a fix for the R2R-11. I wonder if the R2R-1/2 have the same noise issues?

This is being blown a little out of proportion. I still have the gauge 30 ribbon cables in my dac and using them without problem. Similar cables are used in >10k dac. Header pins are made out of brass. Solid brass. This can't be that bad.

The point with the r2r 7 is it does not sound really very well during the first 2 weeks. As for the r2r 11, i never tried dsd, so i can't comment.