[Pricklely Peete]

Quote:

I like to listen at around 75-80dBA average. Let's say for argument's sake that this volume is achieved in LOW gain (0dB) with the 10SE set at 10. The same volume is achieved at 2 in HIGH gain (12dB). Audeze recommend watts for their headphones. Are both options (LOW and HIGH gain at the same volume) optimal? Or is it best to sacrifice volume range and go with HIGH gain because the ceiling isn't as limited?

Good question. I think it comes down to material listened to for the answer in the end. What I mean by that is simply this..if you listen predominately to modern highly compressed high sound level stuff then I would suggest the low gain setting for greatest range of usable volume setting whereas if you listen to material that does not fall into the "loudness wars" category then low OR high gain will take greater advantage of usable headroom. As I said before it all depends on efficiency of headphone, it's load and ultimately personal preference  (in terms of SPL level). In any event you'll be using a fair amount of the amp's ability regardless since the actual max output via 4 pin is 9 W RMS. That headroom is there to allow a couple of tough loads to sound half decent on this amp, for the other regular types (like Grados, Senns etc) that excess power on tap is a major plus. You never want to run an amp section anywhere near it's max ratings anyway (regardless of price tag or nameplate). I hope that helped answer what you where asking.
 
Peete.

 

[DarknightDK]

 
Quote:

I think it is a useful feature. However if the feature wasn't there, I would definately want the unit to power on at 0 volume.
I also second that a gain 'saftey feature' is implemented.
 
As olor1 said,
"Perhaps a configuration where the display flashes when you press gain, and then another button press to confirm the gain change."
 
or, when the gain button is pressed & changed, the volume is reset at 0.
 
 

Agree. It's a good feature to have. Either that or set the volume to 0 on power on.
 

 

[Stereodude]

Quote:

Is that right? So if going LOW gain (0dB) with a 50ohm load there is only 375mw to draw upon in balanced mode at max volume? Doesn't that bring the 10SE back to the fold in terms of how much power it can provide (particularly for more demanding orthos)? Is all that power (5950mw/50ohm as per their website) redundant?

To expand on my earlier answer...  To fully answer your question we need more information about the NFB-10.  Specifically the peak voltage level of the signals coming out of the DAC (ie: voltage with a full scale [0dBFS] digital signal) and the maximum gain of the amplifier section (at max volume) in the High and Low gain settings.  My earlier posts were based on assumptions that the stated power output on high was at max volume (max gain).  I believe that's a reasonable assumption, but I don't know if that assumption is correct.  My educated guess is that it would be rather odd to allow an integrated combo DAC + Amp unit to send such a high amplitude signal into the amp stage that the amp stage would clip the output.  Instead you would want to set it up just short of clipping so that no matter how much you turned up the volume you couldn't get clipping in the output that wasn't in the original digital audio.

 

[Stereodude]

Quote:

Kingwa, the LCD-2 (rev.2) is rated at 60ohm with 91dB efficiency. The LCD-3 is rated at 50ohm with 93dB efficiency and Audeze (in the manual) state that an amp that provides a couple of watts is recommended (see pic). If using the LCD-2 in balanced mode (LOW gain 0dB), does that mean that the 10SE is limited to a few hundred mW of headroom? Would it then be best to use HIGH gain instead even though the range of volume control is more limited because it gets loud very quickly? Doesn't the setting of the volume control limit how much headroom is available anyway?

I realize Audeze can recommend whatever they want, but frankly the suggestion is a bit silly.
 
Audeze LCD-2 (rev.2):
60 ohm headphones on HIGH gain (+12dB) would give you ~5W (balanced).  LOW gain (0dB) would give you ~320mW (balanced).  320mW on a 91dB efficient headphone will mean that they can only play at 116.0dB instead of 128.0dB
 
Audeze LCD-3:
50 ohm headphones on HIGH gain (+12dB) would give you ~5.9W (balanced).  LOW gain (0dB) would give you ~372mW (balanced).  372mW on a 93dB efficient headphone will mean that they can only play at 118.7dB instead of 130.7dB
 
Are you going to miss those 12dB using LOW gain instead of HIGH?  I really doubt it, but how loud do you listen?

 

[olor1n]

I like to listen at 75-80dB average (A-weighting on my SPL metre). I apologize for my ignorance on the matter and appreciate the attempt to clarify from yourself and Peete. However, I think you're both missing the crux of my question.
 
It goes without saying that 90dB+ is LOUD and incredibly unwise for extended periods. I'm not concerned about how loud I can push it, more curious about HOW MUCH HEADROOM the LCD-2 has available to it (at the levels I listen at) from the 10SE in balanced mode both in HIGH (12dB) and LOW (0dB) gain. And subsequently, how much headroom is really required for this planar to perform optimally.
 
Many have expressed the benefit of watts of output, even for the supposedly easily driven LCD-2. This benefit was made apparent to me (first hand) when going from the Audio-GD FUN to the Schiit Lyr. Volume matching (again with an SPL metre) revealed the FUN to struggle in cohesion and control in busier passages, despite what I assume are adequate specs on paper -
 
[size=x-small]3500mW/25 ohm
900mW/100 ohm
300mW/300 ohm
150mW/600 ohm[/size]
 
This is what you posted -
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stereodude /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
[...]
 
Whereas the difference from +12dB to 0dB (12dB) is reducing the output power to 1/15.8th (assuming you didn't change the input signal).  So, relatively speaking the output at the equivalent volume setting (max?) would now be:
 
Balanced:
628MW / 25 ohms
375MW / 50 ohms
208MW / 100 ohms
72.6MW / 300 ohms
37.2MW / 600 ohms
 
Single Ended:
157MW / 25 ohms
93.9MW / 50 ohms
52.1MW / 100 ohms
18.1MW / 300 ohms
9.31MW / 600 ohms

 
So going off of those numbers the FUN (presumably in HIGH gain) has significantly greater output than the 10SE in LOW gain (even balanced)? The FiiO E7 is specified as outputting 16mw into 300ohm. Do your numbers suggest the 10SE (single ended, in LOW gain) is barely more capable than a FiiO E7 at driving something like the HD650?

 

[Stereodude]

Quote:

I like to listen at 75-80dB average (A-weighting on my SPL metre). I apologize for my ignorance on the matter and appreciate the attempt to clarify from yourself and Peete. However, I think you're both missing the crux of my question.
 
It goes without saying that 90dB+ is LOUD and incredibly unwise for extended periods. I'm not concerned about how loud I can push it, more curious about HOW MUCH HEADROOM the LCD-2 has available to it (at the levels I listen at) from the 10SE in balanced mode both in HIGH (12dB) and LOW (0dB) gain. And subsequently, how much headroom is really required for this planar to perform optimally.

Extrapolating from my previous post...  You would have 12dB more headroom.  Assuming you listen at 80dB your headroom would increase from 36dB to 48dB by using HIGH instead of LOW.

 

[HaVoC-28]

 
Quote:

HAVOC PHYSICS ENGINE!!!!!!!!!! LOOOOOOOOOOOL my NFB-10SE ARRIVEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD AFTER 2 DAMN MONTHS! 
 
...2 months...

Yeeeaahh Finally , baaah you seam happy with it as i see , now just try USB/Optical/Coax etc ^^ , and some time later try to balance your K701 to hear the improvement in balanced operation . 
 
But let it burn it a little and to let your brain used to this new sound , and some thoughts about it runing in unblanced mode . (after you can go balanced

).

 

[OPrwtos]

Quote:

 


Yeeeaahh Finally , baaah you seam happy with it as i see , now just try USB/Optical/Coax etc ^^ , and some time later try to balance your K701 to hear the improvement in balanced operation . 
 
But let it burn it a little and to let your brain used to this new sound , and some thoughts about it runing in unblanced mode . (after you can go balanced

).

i tried optical and usb but i cant tell the difference really, also like other people said i cannot tell the difference between the filters. But at least i can power my k701 nicely also better dynamics.
 
 

 

[OPrwtos]

btw guys, if i use wasapi everything is louder and there is more clarity and way more bass but it crates sheet loads of distortion. On "ds" mode its normal but wasapi it distorts. why is this?

 

[Stereodude]

Wasapi should bypass the mixer volume setting, whereas direct sound doesn't.  However, wasapi shouldn't distort anything.

 

[OPrwtos]

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Wasapi should bypass the mixer volume setting, whereas direct sound doesn't.  However, wasapi shouldn't distort anything.

hm is it because im runnig active dsp's
 

 

[HaVoC-28]

 
Quote:

i tried optical and usb but i cant tell the difference really, also like other people said i cannot tell the difference between the filters. But at least i can power my k701 nicely also better dynamics.
 
 

Same here for USB/Coax/Optical , for filters 2x/4x/8x i can't hear , but beetween Minimum phase 'soft-knee' filter. and Linear phase 'brickwall' filter i can .  


Quote:

hm is it because im runnig active dsp's
 

And active DSP's ? adding some effects hu , hum try without dsp's effect , should be no distorsion with wasapi (but with dsp's i don't know ) .

 

[Pricklely Peete]

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hm is it because im runnig active dsp's
 

Likely...disable all DSP plug ins and listen.
 
Peete.

 

[OPrwtos]

Quote:

Likely...disable all DSP plug ins and listen.
 
Peete.

i think it is because of dsp's but i cant listen without them so.... sad times

 

[HaVoC-28]

Try ASIO if you can ?