[OPrwtos]

Quote:

Did you get the -7dB low gain mod?

lol, i didnt ask for it, but it must have....i can listen to 40 volume comfortably on low gain with my film scores. 
 

 

[Stereodude]

Quote:

lol, i didnt ask for it, but it must have....i can listen to 40 volume comfortably on low gain with my film scores. 
 

I would think you don't get it unless you ask for it, but I could be wrong.  I'm still trying to figure out how -7dB became the magic adjustment factor for low instead of say -10dB or some other value.

 

[Questhate]

Yeah, I got -7dB on mine too. When I requested a "lowered lower gain", Sai asked "how much" so I imagine they can be flexible with the value. I only went with -7 because people on here had already done that, and Sai said customer feedback on it was positive. I figured its not a huge difference either way so why sweat it.
 
With that said, I'm fully expecting some Sound Science guy to come in here with formulas and factorials to break it down shortly. 

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

HAVOC PHYSICS ENGINE!!!!!!!!!! LOOOOOOOOOOOL my NFB-10SE ARRIVEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD AFTER 2 DAMN MONTHS! 
 
...2 months...

Hallelujah! Hope it was worth the wait.


Quote:

Loving this unit so far. Running HD650s via optical in on filter 6, high gain, a volume of 16 is very comfortable for listening. What has stood out the most to me so far (in comparison to my NFB-12) is actually the soundstaging, instrument separation, and percussion impact. Listening to a new Beethoven cycle so far has been a joy. I cycled through the filters briefly, but did not find much of a difference. Curiosity over how this thing sounds via balanced output is going to open up my wallet sooner or later...

I know the dynamic compression of a recording has a significant bearing on volume, but 16 in high gain seems incredibly loud. The thing I find with the 10SE is that it's deceptive in this regard due to the control it exerts and the clean presentation it renders. Be careful. Test with a metre if possible.


Quote:

Yeah, I got -7dB on mine too. When I requested a "lowered lower gain", Sai asked "how much" so I imagine they can be flexible with the value. I only went with -7 because people on here had already done that, and Sai said customer feedback on it was positive. I figured its not a huge difference either way so why sweat it.
 
With that said, I'm fully expecting some Sound Science guy to come in here with formulas and factorials to break it down shortly. 

I now feel that lowering the gain in most applications is unnecessary. Even if you're constrained to the first 10 steps in LOW gain (0dB) because of brickwalled recordings there is still fine control over that volume range. You also don't have to worry about channel imbalance in the first few steps because of the way the volume control implemented. With Grado's and iem's in the stable though the -7dB adjustment may be appropriate.

 

[Stereodude]

Quote:

Yeah, I got -7dB on mine too. When I requested a "lowered lower gain", Sai asked "how much" so I imagine they can be flexible with the value. I only went with -7 because people on here had already done that, and Sai said customer feedback on it was positive. I figured its not a huge difference either way so why sweat it.

Well, the difference from +12dB to -7dB (19dB) is reducing the output power to 1/79.4th (assuming you didn't change the input signal).  So, relatively speaking the power output at the equivalent volume setting (max?) would now be:
 
Balanced:
125MW / 25 ohms
75MW / 50 ohms
41.5MW / 100 ohms
14.5MW / 300 ohms
7.43MW / 600 ohms
 
Single Ended:
31.3MW / 25 ohms
18.7MW / 50 ohms
10.4MW / 100 ohms
3.62MW / 300 ohms
1.86MW / 600 ohms
 
Whereas the difference from +12dB to 0dB (12dB) is reducing the output power to 1/15.8th (assuming you didn't change the input signal).  So, relatively speaking the output at the equivalent volume setting (max?) would now be:
 
Balanced:
628MW / 25 ohms
375MW / 50 ohms
208MW / 100 ohms
72.6MW / 300 ohms
37.2MW / 600 ohms
 
Single Ended:
157MW / 25 ohms
93.9MW / 50 ohms
52.1MW / 100 ohms
18.1MW / 300 ohms
9.31MW / 600 ohms

 

[olor1n]

Is that right? So if going LOW gain (0dB) with a 50ohm load there is only 375mw to draw upon in balanced mode at max volume? Doesn't that bring the 10SE back to the fold in terms of how much power it can provide (particularly for more demanding orthos)? Is all that power (5950mw/50ohm as per their website) redundant?

 

[Questhate]

 
Quote:

I now feel that lowering the gain in most applications is unnecessary. Even if you're constrained to the first 10 steps in LOW gain (0dB) because of brickwalled recordings there is still fine control over that volume range. You also don't have to worry about channel imbalance in the first few steps because of the way the volume control implemented. With Grado's and iem's in the stable though the -7dB adjustment may be appropriate.

Yeah, no IEMs here, but I will be using Grados with this unit -- although they will be unbalanced so single-ended stock lower (0dB) gain should still be fine. At least I'll have the option to go balanced in the future.

 
Quote:

Well, the difference from +12dB to -7dB (19dB) is reducing the output power to 1/79.4th (assuming you didn't change the input signal).  So, relatively speaking the power output at the equivalent volume setting (max?) would now be:
 
Balanced:
125MW / 25 ohms
75MW / 50 ohms
41.5MW / 100 ohms
14.5MW / 300 ohms
7.43MW / 600 ohms
 
Single Ended:
31.3MW / 25 ohms
18.7MW / 50 ohms
10.4MW / 100 ohms
3.62MW / 300 ohms
1.86MW / 600 ohms
 
Whereas the difference from +12dB to 0dB (12dB) is reducing the output power to 1/15.8th (assuming you didn't change the input signal).  So, relatively speaking the output at the equivalent volume setting (max?) would now be:
 
Balanced:
628MW / 25 ohms
375MW / 50 ohms
208MW / 100 ohms
72.6MW / 300 ohms
37.2MW / 600 ohms
 
Single Ended:
157MW / 25 ohms
93.9MW / 50 ohms
52.1MW / 100 ohms
18.1MW / 300 ohms
9.31MW / 600 ohms

Stereodude -- right on cue, my man. 
 
 
Although, now that I think about it, with the gain values *so* far apart between -7db and +12dB, I'm scared to death of accidentally hitting the gain button (low --> high) and blowing my ear drums. Does anyone know if we can set it to automatically drop the volume to zero when switching between gain settings? 
 

 

[Kingwa]

Since the NFB10SE have released some days.
I need some feedbacks about when the gear power on, hold on "volume -" key to setting the volume down to 0 step or hold on the " volume + " keep the memory ? Should we keep this function or give up it?
 
I am appreciate the every one's feedbacks, thanks and sorry for my poor English.

 

[Stereodude]

Quote:

Is that right? So if going LOW gain (0dB) with a 50ohm load there is only 375mw to draw upon in balanced mode at max volume? Doesn't that bring the 10SE back to the fold in terms of how much power it can provide (particularly for more demanding orthos)? Is all that power (5950mw/50ohm as per their website) redundant?

Well, not exactly.  The amp is still capable of much higher power output.  However, the amount of gain that can be applied relative to the input signal (in "Low") is going to prevent the high power output from being realized.  What's unclear is at what volume level the power ratings on Audio-gd's website are taken at.  If they're not at max volume (gain) there is more power available in "Low" than the numbers I posted.
 
Also, given a Vpp of 19V in balanced mode there should be more power available than the stated power if the output impedance is 2 ohms.  By my calculations the output impedance is not 2 ohms, but more like 11.25 ohms.
 
Calculated 2 ohm output impedance power:
13370mW / 25 ohms
6942mW / 50 ohms
3539mW / 100 ohms
1195mW / 300 ohms
600mW / 600 ohms
 
Calculated 11.25 ohm output impedance power:
9959mW / 25 ohms
5894mW / 50 ohms
3245mW / 100 ohms
1160mW / 300 ohms
591mW / 600 ohms
 
Rated output power:
9950mW / 25 ohms
5950mW / 50 ohms
3300mW / 100 ohms
1150mW / 300 ohms
590mW / 600 ohms

 

[Stereodude]

Quote:

I need some feedbacks about when the gear power on, hold on "volume -" key to setting the volume down to 0 step or hold on the " volume + " keep the memory ? Should we keep this function or give up it?

 
What will it do if you don't press either "volume +" or "volume -" when it powers on?

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

Since the NFB10SE have released some days.
I need some feedbacks about when the gear power on, hold on "volume -" key to setting the volume down to 0 step or hold on the " volume + " keep the memory ? Should we keep this function or give up it?
 
I am appreciate the every one's feedbacks, thanks and sorry for my poor English.

I like the feature. It serves as an extra safety measure when powering on. What may be beneficial is a similar precaution for the gain switch. Perhaps a configuration where the display flashes when you press gain, and then another button press to confirm the gain change.
 
Kingwa, the LCD-2 (rev.2) is rated at 60ohm with 91dB efficiency. The LCD-3 is rated at 50ohm with 93dB efficiency and Audeze (in the manual) state that an amp that provides a couple of watts is recommended (see pic). If using the LCD-2 in balanced mode (LOW gain 0dB), does that mean that the 10SE is limited to a few hundred mW of headroom? Would it then be best to use HIGH gain instead even though the range of volume control is more limited because it gets loud very quickly? Doesn't the setting of the volume control limit how much headroom is available anyway?
 
 

 

 

[OPrwtos]

Quote:

 
What will it do if you don't press either "volume +" or "volume -" when it powers on?

keep blinking.
 

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Quote:

I like the feature. It serves as an extra safety measure when powering on. What may be beneficial is a similar precaution for the gain switch. Perhaps a configuration where the display flashes when you press gain, and then another button press to confirm the gain change.
 
Kingwa, the LCD-2 (rev.2) is rated at 60ohm with 91dB efficiency. The LCD-3 is rated at 50ohm with 93dB efficiency and Audeze (in the manual) state that an amp that provides a couple of watts is recommended (see pic). If using the LCD-2 in balanced mode (LOW gain 0dB), does that mean that the 10SE is limited to a few hundred mW of headroom? Would it then be best to use HIGH gain instead even though the range of volume control is more limited because it gets loud very quickly? Doesn't the setting of the volume control limit how much headroom is available anyway?
 
 

 

It depends on your preferred level of listening. This is why initial gain settings are somewhat of an educated guess (from Kingwa's standpoint). On the one hand as a designer you are not expecting anyone to push the output stages anywhere near max output while at the same time the designers guesses where the max number of folks will find the comfortable medium while at the same time trying to give enough usable headroom for tough to drive cans like the HE-6. It's a tall order to accommodate a wide variety of headphones while at the same time deliver a sound sig/sound quality commensurate with the A-gd reputation. All of this is of course IMHO.
 
Peete.
 
 

 

[olor1n]

I like to listen at around 75-80dBA average. Let's say for argument's sake that this volume is achieved in LOW gain (0dB) with the 10SE set at 10. The same volume is achieved at 2 in HIGH gain (12dB). Audeze recommend watts for their headphones. Are both options (LOW and HIGH gain at the same volume) optimal? Or is it best to sacrifice volume range and go with HIGH gain because the ceiling isn't as limited?

 

[customNuts]

Quote:

Since the NFB10SE have released some days.
I need some feedbacks about when the gear power on, hold on "volume -" key to setting the volume down to 0 step or hold on the " volume + " keep the memory ? Should we keep this function or give up it?
 
I am appreciate the every one's feedbacks, thanks and sorry for my poor English.

I think it is a useful feature. However if the feature wasn't there, I would definately want the unit to power on at 0 volume.
I also second that a gain 'saftey feature' is implemented.
 
As olor1 said,
"Perhaps a configuration where the display flashes when you press gain, and then another button press to confirm the gain change."
 
or, when the gain button is pressed & changed, the volume is reset at 0.