[DACLadder]

The PCM1704 DACs from Kingwa are PCM only. No conversion from DSD is possible by the DAC. You get no sound playing DSD files. Later A-GD DAC models with R2R capable modules will decode DSD from discreet circuits. Not the PCM ladders like some other manf offer. I think Holo May will convert pcm->dad and dsd->pcm. But I don’t have a need and certainly don’t want to pay for those features.

 

[sajunky]

I think Holo May will convert pcm->dad and dsd->pcm. But I don’t have a need and certainly don’t want to pay for those features.

I had the same idea and raised this question on the diyaudio forum, received response that it would be no benefits. But Holo is doing DSP processing (filtering is seen in Stereophile tests), it is not NOS. On this forum when I opposed Goldenone's findings that Denafrips is not NOS as is doing oversampling using linear interpolation, I finally had to agree on this claim, but during discussion he made additional tests and ultrasonic scrambling in Holo Audio came to a light. It explains Delta-Sigma like sound properties, as such operation decrease low-level resolution.

 

[sajunky]

I have been sort of out of the loop for a while, but this is the first place I've seen anyone say that the HOLO Spring or May and the Denafrips Terminator are NOT NOS DACs, but maybe my focus there is only on when any of them are fed DSD512. I upsample and feed my T+A DAC8DSD DSD512 so that it's operating NOS, and that's the same situation I'd long heard for the Spring/May and Terminators.

Are we saying the same thing, the caveat being that you're talking about whenever they're fed anything else?

The Master and HE DACs also had their limelight for DSD for a bit, but I don't think it was ever a focus quite like it's been for those other DACs.

PCM1704 do not have DSD support, it is why Master models do not play DSD. You will have to convert to PCM on the PC.

I need to explain what NOS stands for. It means non-oversampling and a shortest audio path, that exclude DSP sound processing (filtering or noise shaping).

NOS is very important for playing CD content, less if you have already hi-res source. Many people upsample on PC, a quality is better than it could be done in DAC. When you upsample CD on the PC or convert to DSD, you may have a chance to bypass inferior processing of a DAC, it is why it can be noticed sound improvement. On the Audio GD DAC you can select NOS mode, so you don't need to bother, just play in a native format.

Regarding resampling or converting to other format. I made number of tests using SoX and the best resampler available called PGGB and found that if there is any improvement, it is minimal, not worth to bother with offline resampler. Even more with DSD. With Audio GD DAC converting to DSD doesn't make sense, it sound better when playing in original format.

 

[DACLadder]

@sajunky Thanks for your insight. Have you heard the Holo May? Chord Dave? Just wondering how sound would compare to Kingwa’s latest offerings? Same with Denafrips. Most reviews I’ve read are several years old.

 

[Shahrose]

Thanks for the impressions. I'm interested but seems not much comparisons against more popular models like the Holo Spring 3 KTE, Denafrips Venus II or even Schiit Yggy A2.

The Yggy A2 (which I owned for quite a while) is not in the same league as the R7HE and to me, apart from some subtle microdetail, wasn't even as as good as my Reference 7.1 from Audio-gd when the latter was paired with the DI20HE. The rest I haven't heard.

 

[DACLadder]

Used an Iggy v1 exclusively for 6 months in 2015/16. It was a weird beast in that it took days to warm up so you had to power up 24/7. After a long break-in period, the Iggy v1 was dry and lean compared to the richer sounding M7. The Iggy had great vocals and less colored but didn’t move my soul. Sold the Schiit not long after going back to M7/ Off Ramp 5 DDC.

The Iggy v1 design choice of AD 20-bit DAC chips may have something do with its perceived lean/ dryness. Hope the Iggy A2 is a better experience.

 

[sajunky]

@sajunky Thanks for your insight. Have you heard the Holo May? Chord Dave? Just wondering how sound would compare to Kingwa’s latest offerings? Same with Denafrips. Most reviews I’ve read are several years old.

Only Holo Springs 2 l2, for few hours and it wasn't a direct comparison on the same equipment. I loved sound of R-28 2020, please don't ask me about newer versions. I didn't like Springs, it was something strange associated with music. Better than a good DS, my old brain pickup false harmonics of noise shaping, fatigue comes in few minutes. Springs didn't bring a fatigue, but grass was artificial, maybe even enhanced, but not natural. It is seen on a public ovation, where direction of a various sources is not positioned well, bluring sources. However Springs works well with computer generated music, such added content doesn't harm, people may like little bit of spice anyway. It explain popularity of Holo among those who previously owned DS stuff.

Chord Dave: I didn't hear, only cheaper models, sound is to dry for my taste in all cases, I hear Dave is no different. Denafrips? Very positive. Laid back, real details and no serious issues. Perfect for listening music in background, not involving during critical tests. I would buy Ares if I didn't get a Nobsound 8xTDA1387 first. LOL I am a ladder guy, my first CD player decades ago was based on PCM63. At that time I could afford dCS or Electrocompaniet DAC. I thought that technology has improved, I was wrong. Once I got a Nobsound, my focus was back on R2R converters. Seriously, I almost bought Ares.

I know it is not what you were asking for. I do service people in their homes and listen to their high-end equipment that frequently do not impress me at all. When coming back home, my R2R-11 produces high-end natural sound. It is losing only in complex music like a choir and orchestra busy passages, but for this I need a better Audio GD DAC, nothing else.

 

[PLGA]

I've had a similar experience with the Chord Dave, it didn't impress me much. Of course everything on a system counts, not only the DAC, but it was connected to a very good system, Pass Labs pre and monoblocks and Wilson speakers.

My HE-7 sounds to me much more analog and natural. It's fair to say that I have many devices for conditioning the digital signal and the Dave only had a Mc Mini as a source, but my digital rig, including the HE-7, costs considerably less money. Maybe it's more reasonable to buy a good and complete digital rig (audiophile switch, LAN isolators, DDC, good cables, a Master Clock, antivibration, etc) and a DAC with very good price to perfomance ratio like the HE-7, instead of only a very expensive DAC. It's the sum of parts, not just one single element.

I must say that I have a similar experience with another expensive DACs like Esoteric, T+A, Mark Levinson and Bang and Oluffsen. Not my cup of tea.

 

[sazzz]

I've finally made "a discovery" that my good old Master7 has a very valuable feature compared to many other dacs that I didn't notice before - it allows connecting I2S directly to digital pcb bypassing any conversions at the input terminals. i was so tired to spend money and time for sorting out USB, HDMI cables with different receivers and transmitters with their endless flaws and bottlenecks!

And now after sorting dozens combos i feel so happy having a bundle raspberry pi4 + Pi2AES that produce very good digital flow which goes directly from pins PI2AES to the master7's digital pcb with only 5 cm silver wires without any hassle with cables and input boards. This combo sounds just incredible!

And there are so many other digital pll-hats and fifo-recklockers - comparable cheap, compact, isolated, real-time working, with replaceable clocks that can serve this way, thus master7 with his direct i2s input can still on the edge despite his age.

 

[borrego]

I've finally made "a discovery" that my good old Master7 has a very valuable feature compared to many other dacs that I didn't notice before - it allows connecting I2S directly to digital pcb bypassing any conversions at the input terminals. i was so tired to spend money and time for sorting out USB, HDMI cables with different receivers and transmitters with their endless flaws and bottlenecks!

And now after sorting dozens combos i feel so happy having a bundle raspberry pi4 + Pi2AES that produce very good digital flow which goes directly from pins PI2AES to the master7's digital pcb with only 5 cm silver wires without any hassle with cables and input boards. This combo sounds just incredible!

And there are so many other digital pll-hats and fifo-recklockers - comparable cheap, compact, isolated, real-time working, with replaceable clocks that can serve this way, thus master7 with his direct i2s input can still on the edge despite his age.

Do you put the pi4 + pi2AES inside the Master 7 case?

 

[sazzz]

Do you put the pi4 + pi2AES inside the Master 7 case?

Not really. Master7 stands vertically, and this summer I took out the cover to make radiators colder.

So temporarily I placed it just in front of pcb on the stand

 

[jimmychan]

My older AGD Reference One also use direct i2s input Instead of the SPDIF in.

 

[limberpine]

Since the P2-Aes is out of production, does anyone have a good reccomendation for a DIY or already built solution to run I2S into the Master 7 Singularity?

I'm wifi streaming with a Raspberry Pi 4 now and currently run USB to Audiophilleo 2 with PP to Spdif in to MS7s, but really want to try an I2S into the DAC to see how much more I can get out of the DAC.

 

[sazzz]

Since the P2-Aes is out of production, does anyone have a good reccomendation for a DIY or already built solution to run I2S into the Master 7 Singularity?

I'm wifi streaming with a Raspberry Pi 4 now and currently run USB to Audiophilleo 2 with PP to Spdif in to MS7s, but really want to try an I2S into the DAC to see how much more I can get out of the DAC.

I used Audiophilleo 2 mk II with Master7 a few years ago, Pi2AES is completely another level. As options there are Allo Kali hat or Ian Canada's FifoPiMa

 

[DACLadder]

Have you considered the Pi2AES-Lite? Runs the same Pi2AES s/w. The specs are the same except for voltage input. Or does the +24V model just sound better?
https://www.pi2design.com/

For best sound experience with the old M7 upgrade the I2S adapter to HDMI hardware. Kingwa sells them pretty cheap at around $35us.