[sajunky]

In my experience the external clock is one of those extremely divisive objects, in some systems it seems to give very positive results, greater dynamics, crazy details, but if the system is set up accurately, the electrical phase is verified and and ground connection well done, the The contribution of the external clock can become minimal and futile. I tested the Mutec Ref 10, Gustard C16 and C18 and other DIY or assembled clock 10Mhz. I'm not fully sure that this result can be repeatable in all our audio system.

Gustard's clock synthesiser has some issues, measurements show high-frequency spurs, I remember one reviewer pointed it out. It is also not sure whether external synchronisation is implemented properly. It is not only one questionable feature for usability, streamer feature is in practice limited to Roon, otherwise it works unreliable. The same story with native DSD decoding.

Some members on the forum used this for questioning usability of external clocks in general (with the attitude that Gustard cannot be wrong), it is important to know that with other brand it can be completely different.

It is why I suggest to keep your Mutec and other clocks and try again with DI-24HE, attaching your R26 only by I2S (no external clock to Gustard). Keep in mind that you will be limited to the PCM playback, as Gustard do not support DSD autodetect over I2S connection.

Edit: I noticed response from @Jake2 only after writing this.

 

[rsbrsvp]

I am not technically minded at all- but do a google search and you will see that technically no external 10mhz clock can lower jitter within the human hearing range. Every single one increases jitter. This is what the articles say. Please look yourselves.

Personally- I like the sound better with the external clock and I go by hearing rather than measurements. I am not a scientist but rather an audiophile.

By the way- it is well known that audio-gd products measure pretty bad- and they are the cream of the crop in sound reproduction to my ears.

For a dac- I cannot stand those that measure well- as they all sound sterile and thin to my ears. The best dacs I have heard are the poor measuring ones- like DSD dacs and Audio-gd.

 

[rsbrsvp]

For some reference:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/does-your-studio-need-digital-master-clock

https://theaudiostandard.net/thread/7128/external-clocks-make#:~:text=The short answer: No, 10Mhz,not exist in home setups."

Here is a quote from a simple google search: 10MHz master clocks use rate multipliers to convert to digital audio rates, which generate more jitter and tend to have a dirtier spectrum. As far as I have ever been able to find out, the reason 10mHz is prevalent in clocking is likely historical and due to it simply being a round number.

 

[FredA]

For some reference:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/does-your-studio-need-digital-master-clock

https://theaudiostandard.net/thread/7128/external-clocks-make#:~:text=The short answer: No, 10Mhz,not exist in home setups."

Here is a quote from a simple google search: 10MHz master clocks use rate multipliers to convert to digital audio rates, which generate more jitter and tend to have a dirtier spectrum. As far as I have ever been able to find out, the reason 10mHz is prevalent in clocking is likely historical and due to it simply being a round number.

What you hear is what matters. How phase noise is distributed matters.

 

[rsbrsvp]

What you hear is what matters. How phase noise is distributed matters.

Agreed. That is what I wrote. Measurements do not move me. Sound does and I find 10mhz clocks improve sound IMHO to my ears. Maybe I like jitter- but bottom line- I like the effect on the sound.

 

[pascal1267]

Just an update about the comparison between the di20/clock and the di24he. I just received an email from Kingwa with some clarifications. I'll let him express the point in his own words:

« Dear Pascal,

My mate has the unclear reply on the email.

The DI20 with a good performance external clock that can has the same or slightly better than the Di24.

But in the case the Di20 and external clock cost much expensive than the Di24.

The DI20 even with any external devices but that impossible has the same or better sound than the Di24 HE.

Kingwa »


Although I have never heard the di24he, this statement makes sense to me.

 

[FredA]

Just an update about the comparison between the di20/clock and the di24he. I just received an email from Kingwa with some clarifications. I'll let him express the point in his own words:

« Dear Pascal,

My mate has the unclear reply on the email.

The DI20 with a good performance external clock that can has the same or slightly better than the Di24.

But in the case the Di20 and external clock cost much expensive than the Di24.

The DI20 even with any external devices but that impossible has the same or better sound than the Di24 HE.

Kingwa »


Although I have never heard the di24he, this statement makes sense to me.

That is with your DAC, of course. Different story with a recent audio-gd top dac, as I experience an upgrade going to the di24he from the di20he.

 

[aurimasma]

DI24HE has 50ohm and 75ohm clock outputs.
So I asked Audio-GD support (I was answered not by Kingwa, but by Channel) if it was beneficial to sync up clocks between DI24HE and R-27HE. Basically DI24HE would act as an external clock for R-27HE.

The answer suppressed me:
The sound quality using di24he as an external clock for r27he is same as using them both on their internal clocks.
Because the design of the clock is the same.
Best regards.

Is there no benefit to have two separate devices synced? (It's very common practice in pro audio).
Any thoughts?

 

[sajunky]

DI24HE has 50ohm and 75ohm clock outputs.
So I asked Audio-GD support (I was angered not by Kingwa, but by Channel) if it was beneficial to sync up clocks between DI24HE and R-27HE. Basically DI24HE would act as an external clock for R-27HE.

The answer suppressed me:
The sound quality using di24he as an external clock for r27he is same as using them both on their internal clocks.
Because the design of the clock is the same.
Best regards.

Is there no benefit to have two separate devices synced? (It's very common practice in pro audio)?
Any thoughts?

Well, you have to trust them on that. They talk exclusively about I2S connection (as there is no other at the moment). I2S has a separate differential shielded twisted pair for a clock, such transmission is comparable in quality to the single-ended coax cable, or even better.

It would change if DI-24 had S/PDIF output. And get a good quality external clock. Experiment yourself what is better: feed both with external clock or only DI-24. And post report back on the forum.

 

[FredA]

DI24HE has 50ohm and 75ohm clock outputs.
So I asked Audio-GD support (I was answered not by Kingwa, but by Channel) if it was beneficial to sync up clocks between DI24HE and R-27HE. Basically DI24HE would act as an external clock for R-27HE.

The answer suppressed me:
The sound quality using di24he as an external clock for r27he is same as using them both on their internal clocks.
Because the design of the clock is the same.
Best regards.

Is there no benefit to have two separate devices synced? (It's very common practice in pro audio).
Any thoughts?

Not too surprised. The interest of these clock outs is more with synching additional devices, if for instance you need one or two additional clock outputs your actual clock is missing. Synching is only possible in my understanding when using an external clock on the di24he and when selecting the external to be used for the clock outs. Another use if you have an ether regen and or switch with ext clock input, you can then use the clock generator if you don't own a 10M clock. . It is more of a convenience feature than anything else.

 

[aurimasma]

Well, you have to trust them on that. They talk exclusively about I2S connection (as there is no other at the moment). I2S has a separate differential shielded twisted pair for a clock, such transmission is comparable in quality to the single-ended coax cable, or even better.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is that they are already synced if connected over i2s connection?

 

[sajunky]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is that they are already synced if connected over i2s connection?

It could. It either this, or they say that cost of syncing (I mean reclocking) is the same as syncing to the exernal source. Knowing Kingwa aproach, he tries to avoid unnecessary processing. It is deployed only when supported by positive tests.

 

[FredA]

It could. It either this, or they say that cost of syncing (I mean reclocking) is the same as syncing to the exernal source. Knowing Kingwa aproach, he tries to avoid unnecessary processing. It is deployed only when supported by positive tests.

They are not. The selected dac clock is used to redo the timing from scratch.

 

[OCC7N]

I like how the DI20HE overwhelms the analog warmth because R8 already has more than R1N. However if the DI24HE can do what the 20 has done to the R1N, it is an experience to look for...

How is the time on DI24HE. Collected and responsive or laidback musical?

 

[FredA]

I like how the DI20HE overwhelms the analog warmth because R8 already has more than R1N. However if the DI24HE can do what the 20 has done to the R1N, it is an experience to look for...

How is the time on DI24HE. Collected and responsive or laidback musical?

I would say more laid back. But more dynamic too.