Audio-GD DI-20

[sajunky]

Yes. I don’t think one is used when playing from the amanero.

Still I don't understand. PLL should be active when USB synchronous mode is forced by the source. Why? Because it is better than without PLL. Like it had been active all the time on all A-GD DACs till 2021 models irrespective of the USB mode. DI-20 is a first device that is switching off PLL for USB asynchronous transfers. It is a grand feature, so we should use it.

Are you saying that there is no PLL available for USB at all? I don't believe so, it would be very bad. I think that PLL is still there, but is now tuned for the requirements of S/PDIF sources.

 

[FredA]

Still I don't understand. PLL should be active when USB synchronous mode is forced by the source. Why? Because it is better than without PLL. Like it had been active all the time on all A-GD DACs till 2021 models irrespective of the USB mode. DI-20 is a first device that is switching off PLL for USB asynchronous transfers. It is a grand feature, so we should use it.

Are you saying that there is no PLL available for USB at all? I don't believe so, it would be very bad. I think that PLL is still there, but is now tuned for the requirements of S/PDIF sources.

I don't know. Usb asynch is used in most situations, otherwise, with syncrhronous, i have no idea how things work. May the amanero does the reclocking. Maybe not.

 

[smodtactical]

Good observation, it is true due to the latency on one side, but ground loop noise is a clulprit in most cases, so a different cable can reduce effect, it may even eliminate if lucky.

On my laptop as a source it happens when synchronous transfer mode is selected, the same happens on three different DACs tested. One has Amanero drivers, second one XMOS, the third use built in Windows drivers (CM108 chip). All of them lose synchnronisation at times, producing similar distortions. A time to recover vary, depends on the chip. CM108 is the worst one.

I have a bit-perfect configuration in Foobar, so load of the system is minimal and DPC latency is in control, but it still happens when using WASAPI push mode. It indicate excess of noise on my cheap cable. When switching to the WASAPI event mode effect is different. Now there are two cases, it will help you recognise a cause:

1. DPC latency problem on PC: There are no strange distortions, but music is interrupted for a half second (a time depends on a size of WASAPI buffers).

2. Transmission noise (ground loops, cheap cable). Each data frame is checked for errors. When wrong CRC is detected, frame is dropped and replaced with zero samples, it is very short time, you won't notice anything wrong.

-----------------------
TL;DR,
Losing synchronisation (effects as described) won't happen in WASAPI event mode. It is a right transfer mode for DI-20; a source data stream is always synchronised with DI-20 clock. Your options:

1. Use a good quality USB cable. When testing the cable use WASAPI push output device. Use ferrite clamps on the USB cable (it can be two on both sides of the cable) to see whether it helps. Switch to the WASAPI event output device when finished testing and always play in this mode.

2. When it is required to skip a track or reset DI-20 and your output device is WASAPI push (or some other non bit-perfect output), don't pressure Kingwa to fix firmware. Result will be detrimental to all users who have proper low-noise setup. What Kingwa will do is increase frequency range of PLL loop. PLL will stay synchronised all the time, but on the cost of increasing jitter. If you don't understand what I am saying, trust me, it will happen.

3. When it is required to skip a track or reset DI-20 and your output device is WASAPI event, then something is wrong with DI-20, your feedback is required.

1. Right now using audio sensibility signature usb cable. So seems good?

2. ok

3. I am using roon. How do I set wasapi in roon? Can't find it in settings.

 

[sajunky]

@smodtactica.

The first step is to enable WASAPI exclusive mode in Windows sound Control Panel. If you don't do this, no Windows application is able to claim exclusive axess for bit-perfect transfers. Type "control" in search box (without quotes) to access Windows Control Panel. It is carefully hidden in the latest version of Windows. Then open a sound icon and make changes for your DAC device as indicated on the screenshot.

I can't help much with Roon, but made search, it is covered there:
https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/audio-on-windows
It says, Roon support two output drivers: WASAPI or ASIO and gives you link to the basic settings page. Find WASAPI there I couldn't go through these animated things. There is setting for exclusive mode in General Settings section, it must be also enabled in the application. It is not enabled by default!

And finally in the Advanced section you will find required setting for asynchronous transfer, also not enabled by default!
Enable Event Driven Mode (WASAPI only)

Hope it helps, God bless you.

 

[PeterCraig]

Sold my much loved SU-6 yesterday, DI-20 arrives Thursday along with Precision 3 for my desktop speakers. Will look at a new dac once I have clocked 10 years or so on my M7. Which isn't that far away.

 

[marcelnl]

I finally got the Pink Faun I2S card to work, in a new project computer (AMD Ryzen 5 1600, 64Gb fast RAM, running Daphile) I'm quite sure the DI20 is not for me. I almost traded the PF card in for a DI20 as it appeared incompatible with many Intel processors....first impression is very good, and that is without a linear PSU for the computer or any upgraded cables etc.

 

[FredA]

Sold my much loved SU-6 yesterday, DI-20 arrives Thursday along with Precision 3 for my desktop speakers. Will look at a new dac once I have clocked 10 years or so on my M7. Which isn't that far away.

Welcome back, Peter. You joined a popular club!

 

[PeterCraig]

Welcome back, Peter. You joined a popular club!

Thanks Fred! One of the more interesting threads here on Head-Fi

 

[FredA]

Thanks Fred! One of the more interesting threads here on Head-Fi

Like you, i considered the precision 3 as i now have an office at home. And an office setup, with the r2r 11 as dac/pre. This little guy is perfect for the task. The speakers are the boston a25s. The amp is the hifimediy t1. But i was curious and ordered chinese speakers and a cheap class-ab on ebay.

The di20 should enhance the perf of your m7. Let us know by how much once it's properly burned in.

 

[newabc]

Win 10 Quartus 16.1 installation note

I had never installed Quartus on Win 10 before, this time I did it. I didn't need to reboot the win 10 machine during the installation processes of Quartus and usb blaster, and before, on and after the flashing/update process, too.

(1) USB blaster hardware:

I used a usb blaster introduced by @Pappas3278 (head-fi link) in this thread, the amazon seller is XYGStudy. I think the Waveshare and XYGStudy brands on Amazon are selling the same models(V1 and V2).

(2) Quartus software version:
Quartus Prime Lite Edition 16.1(Free) from Intel. Exact version is 16.1.0.196. It is a free version.

Setup file's size is 1.7 GB. MD5 hash: CA6C71EE9B6AAB851D4A7E9FDC02C81D. It includes Nios II EDS. I haven't tried another setup file: it is ModelSim-Intel FPGA Edition (includes Starter Edition). File size is 1.1 GB. MD5 hash: 81EAE2F2D55ABECD4F1265FCDFE74760.

(3) Installation process note:

(a) Installed Quartus 16.1 at first.

(b) USB port:
The USB 2.0 ports on back panel of my motherboard are used by other stuff. USB 2.0 ports on my computer case's front panel cannot make the Device Manager recognize the usb blaster even Win 10 pop-ups a "found new hardware" window before I opened Device Manager. So I used a USB 3.0 port on the front panel.

(c) After plugged in the usb blaster, the Device Manager shows an unconfigured usb-blaster in "other devices". Just follow the 2nd step in @DACLadder 's "Altera Blaster Checks" document. In the Quartus 16.1, the driver can be found in "D:\intelFPGA_lite\16.1\quartus\drivers" if you installed Quartus software in "D:\intelFPGA_lite\16.1\" folder.

(d) Power on the DI-20 and connect the blaster to it as Kingwa's update guide(link). If the Quartus Prime Lite 16.1 asks for device installation after you start the main program, just press "no".

(e) Start the programmer by "Tools => Programmer" menu of Quartus Prime Lite 16.1", then follow the 3a and 3b step of the "Altera Blaster Checks" document to do "hardware setup".

(f) Start the JTAG chain debugger by "Tools => JTAG chain debugger" menu, then follow the 3rd step of the "Altera Blaster Checks" document to "Test JTAG chain" before flashing.

(g) Follow the 6th to 8th steps of Kingwa's update guide(link) to finish the flashing and update.

Thanks for Kingwa's original update guide and @DACLadder 's "Altera Blaster Checks" ("Altera Quartus II 16.0 Programmer Tools Basic Screen Shots") document.

Update information on 12/19/20:
(1) This usb blaster's Amazon bar code is X000R4Q1A3. Only a blaster, a Mini-USB cable and JTAG cable in the package, no CD/DVD inside.

(2) Based on Waveshare's product page, it is using a FTDI chip FT245R as the USB FIFO interface. By the way, FTDI is a pretty good brand of the usb chips of the programming cables in HAM radio(link).

 

[jazzbug]

I've settled with 3.933 for a while since three new FW published from Oct 2020. Comparing with other two, 3.933 was the most transparent, clarity and emotional for my rig.
Recently I received RAL i2S cable to replace a $60. Oh man, even after just 2 days burn in, the difference is HUGE.

RAL is like a magnifier, unveils and reveals all the micro details, the separation, tonal clarity, sound stage, razor clearness, airy, esp with high, blacker background.
I have gone through the latest three FW again with RAL, as I was bit disappointing with 3.933, which was my fav with old HDMI cable.
Now 3.933 sounds quite forward, on the face, pin point instrument, extreme details, but lack of low end and I was bit detached from the music itself but the audio, though I've been constantly amazed by the extra details I didn't hear from the same album in the past. Having said that RAL is still much less harsh on highs than the old $60.
I switch to 4.076, it feels everything decreases a little bit, I still don't feel the engagement as in the past.
Finally the 4.075, I can tell straight away it's not the extact clinical presentation of 3.933, the sound stage retrieves bit further back which is my liking. I have more bass, and most important the connection with my music again.

It's interesting that RAL made my FW opinions opposite from other HDMI cable, I'm enjoying music with 4.075 and believe it will last a long time until Kingwa gives us another FW boost.
I'm extremely happy with RAL investment, perfect in my rig from DI20HE (internal P) to PS DSD senior.

 

[PeterCraig]

My new DI-20 shipped with 4.075

 

[FredA]

I've settled with 3.933 for a while since three new FW published from Oct 2020. Comparing with other two, 3.933 was the most transparent, clarity and emotional for my rig.
Recently I finally received RAL i2S cable to replace a $60. Oh man, even after just 2 days burn in, the difference is HUGE.

RAL is like a magnifier, unveils and reveals all the micro details, the separation, tonal clarity, sound stage, razor clearness, airy, esp with high, blacker background.
I have gone through the latest three FW again with RAL, as I was bit disappointing with 3.933, which was my fav with old HDMI cable.
Now 3.933 sounds quite forward, on the face, pin point instrument, extreme details, but lack of low end and I was bit detached from the music itself but the audio, though I've been constantly amazed by the extra details I didn't hear from the same album in the past. Having said that RAL is still much less harsh on highs than the old $60.
I switch to 4.076, it feels everything decreases a little bit, I still don't feel the engagement as in the past.
Finally the 4.075, I can tell straight away it's not the extact clinical presentation of 3.933, the sound stage retrieves bit further back which is my liking. I have more bass, and most important the connection with my music again.

It's interesting that RAL made my FW opinions opposite from other HDMI cable, I'm enjoying music with 4.075 and believe it will last a long time until Kingwa gives us another FW boost.
I'm extremely happy with RAL investment, perfect in my rig from DI20HE (internal P) to PS DSD senior.

You RAL, from my experience with silver cables, should need 300 hours to mature.

Funny, coincidently, i just got my Nimak Purple (all silver) usb cable two days ago. Still makes 3.993 very enjoyable but with some much more ambience and details that were not heard before, plus deeper bass. Still too early to judge the cable, it's gonna need another 3 weeks.

Ouch, 800USD for the RAL. The nimak silver retails for 600.

 

[jazzbug]

I might fast forward the burn in over coming 10 days

 

[DACLadder]

@newabc Appreciate you updating the Altera software links. To save a lot of disc space instead of installing the whole Quartus design suite and tools you will never use just download the programming only tools. See the link below in the 'Intel Download Center'.

I downloaded the latest 20.4 programming tools and installation is twice the size of the older 16.0/1 programmer only versions (1.4GB vs 2.8GB). And the latest tools have the 'dumb down' Windows tablet look. 16 looks better with a standard PC setup. All these programmer s/w versions do the same thing. It does not matter. Just need to find one that runs without error on your computer.