Audio Device Burn-In Discussion

Have you experienced "burn-in"? (Has a new amp or dac sounded better after a few days of listening?)

  • Yes, I have noticed this.

    Votes: 6 60.0%
  • No, everything sounds the same from the instant you turn it on to the day it dies.

    Votes: 4 40.0%

  • Total voters
    10
Nov 4, 2017 at 11:34 AM Post #31 of 40
If the changes are immeasurable, then they certainly are inaudible. If they are inaudible, they don't matter at all.

I can see a mechanical device like a transducer "breaking in". But if that shift is large, it's probably going to continue to break in and eventually break down. That's called "wearing out" not "breaking in".

If you want to know what "burn in" REALLY is, I'll let you in on the secret... Burn in is the excuse retailers use to try to get you to keep something you really don't like until the return for refund window closes. Next time a salesman tells you that something takes a few weeks to break in, ask him to put in writing that if it doesn't break in properly in X weeks, you can still return it for a full refund. Watch him backtrack and start telling you that burn in is very small and maybe inaudible.
It's true, I remember reading a thread where someone wanted to return a piece of gear.

The representative of customer service for the company posted that the person should burn-in the device for at least 4 weeks. It's a smokescreen to try to get people to get past the return window.
Not only that I won't mention the name of company here, as they most likely a sponser. But they even include a burn-in cable with the product for their convenience, not ours LOL.
 
Nov 4, 2017 at 2:21 PM Post #32 of 40
good call, that way we can't possibly guess that you're talking about ibasso. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
 
Nov 4, 2017 at 2:49 PM Post #33 of 40
This is absolute nonsense. As someone who has built computer systems and has been an avid overclocker for the better part of 30 years, i can say without any doubt that these components do physically change which is why a large number of people have noted over on overclock.net that their PCs can no longer run the same clock speeds as they did just a few years earlier without increases in voltages, and in some cases regardless of voltage. Of course your first reaction will be to blame this on heat, but that theory doesn't fly because people like myself have custom loop watercooling systems where the CPU, GPU, or voltage regulators are kept 30-50'c cooler than air cooled computers.
And nobody here is claiming that these changes have such unpredictability that it would make the design and manufacturing of a product with a consistent resulting sound impossible. You implied that with the intent of showing your argument as the valid one, but the fact that modern PC's have features such as line load calibration, and individual variable voltage regulation to almost every component on a motherboard that is designed to maintain a PC's stability over years of use where capacitors change and degrade, and silicone chips lose efficiency through voltage leakage causing increased heat and thus requiring more voltage.

I'm not saying this all would directly apply to audio amplifiers, but your analogy of implying it doesn't apply to computer electronics is patently false.


The nature of overclocking means stressing components.

Outside of their design parameters.
 
Nov 5, 2017 at 7:49 AM Post #35 of 40
The day when I saw that burn-in cable in ibasso box... I never thought their devices were particularly special. They put out unfinished products, and buggy.

Sony NW-WM1A has a disclaimer stating the caps need minimum 200 hours to burn-in.

Another thing that really gets me is the copper, siliver, gold housing edition DAPs that companies put out now a days. They add mucho $$ for the bling, and people actually point out how much better it sound.
 
Nov 5, 2017 at 8:41 AM Post #36 of 40
Burn-in should be shown by measurements if the measurements can be replicated precisely. For electronics, replicating shouldn't be a problem.

It depends on what variables people are considering. People may not even be considering the fact their ears maybe adjusting to a difference in signature outputted through the headphones.

I highly doubt that my HD650 when I first listened to them were burned in over time as the sig is quite distinctive if comparing to avg headphones. At the time I was comparing to bright headphones. DT880, and K701. If you switch to HD650 from it, the contrast is immediately felt. I did end up keeping the HD650 after having my ears adjust to the signature as it sounded better over time.

This is one of the pitfalls of direct headphones comparisons.
 
Last edited:
Nov 5, 2017 at 9:32 AM Post #37 of 40
I agree,
I don't think I could honestly tell if I had experienced burn in from the equipment or if it's just my ears and my brain adjusting to the sound.
I have DT990s and at first they seemed noticeably bright and a bit harsh. But maybe 10-20 hrs of listening they got better.
Now they are totally perfect to me. I really really love the sound I'm getting from them now. Even if I don't use them for a few days, the harshness is totally gone. But then if burn in is real then can't someone prove it?
 
Nov 5, 2017 at 10:10 AM Post #38 of 40
Burn-in should be shown by measurements if the measurements can be replicated precisely. For electronics, replicating shouldn't be a problem.

It depends on what variables people are considering. People may not even be considering the fact their ears maybe adjusting to a difference in signature outputted through the headphones.

I highly doubt that my HD650 when I first listened to them were burned in over time as the sig is quite distinctive if comparing to avg headphones. At the time I was comparing to bright headphones. DT880, and K701. If you switch to HD650 from it, the contrast is immediately felt. I did end up keeping the HD650 after having my ears adjust to the signature as it sounded better over time.

This is one of the pitfalls of direct headphones comparisons.
indeed. measurement is the way to go to confirm sound changes. pretty obvious, but in a hobby where everybody claims to look for fidelity while never measuring anything, it never hurts to repeat the obvious.
and I agree also about direct comparison. it's by far the best test to notice audible differences, but it can be very misleading for preference based decisions. my preferred signature example aside from headphones where it's very obvious that we are used to whatever we had before, is low frequency EQ. take a bass level that feels right, boost it and go back a few times. chances are that what previously felt flat, now feels a little recessed. we don't adjust to bass boost at the same speed we adjust to bass attenuation, so going back and forth usually makes us boost too much for our own taste. I love(to hate) those situations where our preferences end up guiding us poorly about our preferences ^_^. it's the ultimate level of subjective failure. the good thing is that just by giving a signature some time, we usually fall right back on our feet and adjust to it. as long as we don't assume that those changes were burn-in, I guess we're fine.
 
Nov 6, 2017 at 5:32 AM Post #39 of 40
I agree,
I don't think I could honestly tell if I had experienced burn in from the equipment or if it's just my ears and my brain adjusting to the sound.
I have DT990s and at first they seemed noticeably bright and a bit harsh. But maybe 10-20 hrs of listening they got better.
Now they are totally perfect to me. I really really love the sound I'm getting from them now. Even if I don't use them for a few days, the harshness is totally gone. But then if burn in is real then can't someone prove it?

Just use different headphones until you brain has burned in. I used a 770 daily at my PC. Switched to a HD-25-II, which I love. Everything sounded so "bad". A certain game soundtrack sounded so "off", I couldn't play it - it was so "wrong".
 
Nov 6, 2017 at 2:25 PM Post #40 of 40
Aging can cause variations in components. This is known and also known that no two electronic parts with the same model are identical. Resistors with variations of 1% are called "precision resistors!" So surely, no engineer will ever design a product whose performance would be degraded due to variations of component values of this magnitude. Age related changes are actually smaller than this as to be called "immeasurable." If so, then they cannot have the impact on the circuits that people believe. If they did, you would have to buy 100 of a product and pick the one with the best combination of component values and no one does that!

FYI, on mechanical transducers there is a change and "burn-in." Harman measured such changes in the woofer but the impact on the overall response of the speaker was negligible. So if we can't make a case there, we surely have a hard time with electronic products.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top