[YtseJamer]

http://blog.lumoid.com/audeze-maintains-audio-dominance-with-sine-headphones/

 

[droido256]

*curses to self* 

 sigh.............yep im going to have to get one. Ill wait a couple months though.

 

[Sonic Defender]

  Just wanted to follow up on the review i wrote a few days ago.
 
I mentioned that the Sines didnt sound so good with my current mp3 player. In reality, its not the Sines fault. It only plays what its given. I guess the point i should have made was, these cans need an amp and lossless music only.

If the mp3 files are 320 then they will be indistinguishable from the lossless version. This has been confirmed in several blind listening tests. I conducted such a test at a headphone meet we had last year. With 7 subjects, and at least 4 trials each, keeping the equipment, the song, the volume level constant, in blind listening nobody picked the lossless version as sounding different/better even 50% of the time. I of course didn't tell them which version was playing so for each trial they heard the MP3 and the lossless version and were asked if the heard any difference between them. So you can't assume that an MP3 file had anything to do with your impression of the Sine. Even thought it sounds like they are very good that is no guarantee you will like them.

 

[YtseJamer]

  If the mp3 files are 320 then they will be indistinguishable from the lossless version. This has been confirmed in several blind listening tests. I conducted such a test at a headphone meet we had last year. With 7 subjects, and at least 4 trials each, keeping the equipment, the song, the volume level constant, in blind listening nobody picked the lossless version as sounding different/better even 50% of the time. I of course didn't tell them which version was playing so for each trial they heard the MP3 and the lossless version and were asked if the heard any difference between them. So you can't assume that an MP3 file had anything to do with your impression of the Sine. Even thought it sounds like they are very good that is no guarantee you will like them.

 
+1  
 
I have never been able to hear the difference between lossless and a good 320kbps rip.

 

[marcan]

Well it depends on the encoder and the parameters of the encoding.
Lame with v parameters are tuned to death.
Anyway it doesn't tell that it is indistinguishable from the source but rather that statistically a vast majority of people can't tell the difference on the reproduction system they did the test.
So you have to make the test by yourself on your system.
In certain conditions I was able to distinguish from the source but it was on particular samples not the entire track. Applause are easy to catch on a mp3 abx test.
However I was more able to distinguish 24 vs 16 bit (both lossless) than lossless vs mp3. Go figure.

 

[Sonic Defender]

  Well it depends on the encoder and the parameters of the encoding.
Lame with v parameters are tuned to death.
Anyway it doesn't tell that it is indistinguishable from the source but rather that statistically a vast majority of people can't tell the difference on the reproduction system they did the test.
So you have to make the test by yourself on your system.
In certain conditions I was able to distinguish from the source but it was on particular samples not the entire track. Applause are easily to catch on a mp3 abx test.
However I was more able to distinguish 24 vs 16 bit (both lossless) than lossless vs mp3. Go figure.

Indistinguishable versus exactly the same for all practical intent is the same thing, if I can't tell it apart it doesn't matter if it is exact as I can't tell anyway, but yes your point is correct, they aren't the same thing. I read a really good article a few years ago by a gentleman who was extremely well known for his knowledge assessing and designing sound compression algorithms. One point he made that I found very interesting was that early on when such things were starting there were horrid encoders, and even the better ones were rather questionable; however, he went on to say that modern encoders were greatly improved and I thought he mentioned that LAME was rather good. Anyway, I used LAME to create the file, but it was 320CBR.

 

[marcan]

  Indistinguishable versus exactly the same for all practical intent is the same thing, if I can't tell it apart it doesn't matter if it is exact as I can't tell anyway, but yes your point is correct, they aren't the same thing. I read a really good article a few years ago by a gentleman who was extremely well known for his knowledge assessing and designing sound compression algorithms. One point he made that I found very interesting was that early on when such things were starting there were horrid encoders, and even the better ones were rather questionable; however, he went on to say that modern encoders were greatly improved and I thought he mentioned that LAME was rather good. Anyway, I used LAME to create the file, but it was 320CBR.

In my case it's not always indistinguishable from the source but for portable use it's fine for me. Maybe not with a Sine tho.
Join stereo is nearly always better. Without it, I can hear it directly.
People think that mp3 is about retrieve sound while it is rather adding quantisation noise in the time domain. So you have pre ringing that takes place. I'm very sensible to those. 

 

[Buddhasense]

Well it depends on the encoder and the parameters of the encoding.
Lame with v parameters are tuned to death.
Anyway it doesn't tell that it is indistinguishable from the source but rather that statistically a vast majority of people can't tell the difference on the reproduction system they did the test.
So you have to make the test by yourself on your system.
In certain conditions I was able to distinguish from the source but it was on particular samples not the entire track. Applause are easy to catch on a mp3 abx test.
However I was more able to distinguish 24 vs 16 bit (both lossless) than lossless vs mp3. Go figure.

You'll often find that it's easier to distinguish between 16 bit and 24 bit tracks because of different mastering. High res releases are usually much more carefully mastered.

Did you use a 16 bit conversion of a 24 bit file and test those side to side? If you can distinguish between those then you're something of a rarity.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Not to mention, high resolution re-issues typically are mastered louder, and we all know that as long as the signal isn't distorted, louder will be perceived as sounding better.

 

[brent75]

  Not to mention, high resolution re-issues typically are mastered louder, and we all know that as long as the signal isn't distorted, louder will be perceived as sounding better.

I tend to agree with this. My slight variation on it is this: louder actually sounds FULLER...and it's a sense of a full sound that is more pleasing.

 

[marcan]

You'll often find that it's easier to distinguish between 16 bit and 24 bit tracks because of different mastering. High res releases are usually much more carefully mastered.

Did you use a 16 bit conversion of a 24 bit file and test those side to side? If you can distinguish between those then you're something of a rarity.

Of course I take the same source same mastering (or no mastering on both)
32 bit   -> 24 bit
32 bit   -> 16 bit dithered
ABX in foobar
 
I'm not able to tell the difference between 16v24 everyday.
But sometimes I'm able to make it. It depends on different factors.
If I work intensively on a track in the studio for more than 12 hours, I'm often able to tell the difference. But if I stop working on the track and I go to sleep it's gone...
In certain state of mind I think I'm also able but I don't remember exactly

 

[jodgey4]

Also consider the fact that some DACs handle different bit depths and rates differently - so it could simply be a design flaw in your gear. These types of discussions are best meant for the sound science sub-forum, there's lots of great conversations going on there where we could continue this conversation . Back to the Sines!

 

[marcan]

  Also consider the fact that some DACs handle different bit depths and rates differently - so it could simply be a design flaw in your gear. These types of discussions are best meant for the sound science sub-forum, there's lots of great conversations going on there where we could continue this conversation . Back to the Sines!

So how are mp3 on the Sines?

 

[bavinck]

  So how are mp3 on the Sines?

I find all Audeze handle mp3 and poorly recorded material well. The sine are a typical Audeze that way.

 

[marcan]

  I find all Audeze handle mp3 and poorly recorded material well. The sine are a typical Audeze that way.

They make it bearable but not unnoticed for me.