[HipHopScribe]

The answer for what is 'Hi-Res' would be varied depending on who you ask. I consider lossless 96kHz 24bit audio Hi-Res and Mobius supports that in 2ch USB mode without head-tracking. LDAC is not lossless so it does not fit the definition. I have seen 48kHz 24bit or 16bit audio also called Hi-Res. It is important that the full chain including DSP is capable of handling the same sample rate and often times 96kHz would push the limits on what an board DSP can do and having to keep an eye on power usage too.

I consider being lossless, avoiding sample rate conversion and keep distortion low more important than having a label that claims a higher sample-rate. The chipset used in Penrose is capable of handling 96kHz 24 bit Audio without having to resample to a lower rate, but there were are couple of factors we had to consider.

1. Consoles support 48kHz audio only and you do not have much control over that.
2. Sending 96kHz 24bit lossless audio using wireless technology is a steep ask and not many field tested solutions exist and given (1) above there it was not enough of a motivating factor for the use case of Penrose.

I think that makes complete sense. Low latency and lossless audio are much more important than hi-res support. There's no doubt that the wireless solution in Penrose is technically superior to LDAC just by the fact that LDAC is lossy. On top of being lossy, LDAC doesn't actually delivery 24/96 audio, even at it's highest bitrate (which is unstable and unachievable by many sending devices). I'm doubtful that hi-res would benefit the Penrose at all anyway.

 

[DocHollidey]

The answer for what is 'Hi-Res' would be varied depending on who you ask. I consider lossless 96kHz 24bit audio Hi-Res and Mobius supports that in 2ch USB mode without head-tracking. LDAC is not lossless so it does not fit the definition. I have seen 48kHz 24bit or 16bit audio also called Hi-Res. It is important that the full chain including DSP is capable of handling the same sample rate and often times 96kHz would push the limits on what an board DSP can do and having to keep an eye on power usage too.

I consider being lossless, avoiding sample rate conversion and keep distortion low more important than having a label that claims a higher sample-rate. The chipset used in Penrose is capable of handling 96kHz 24 bit Audio without having to resample to a lower rate, but there were are couple of factors we had to consider.

1. Consoles support 48kHz audio only and you do not have much control over that.
2. Sending 96kHz 24bit lossless audio using wireless technology is a steep ask and not many field tested solutions exist and given (1) above it was not enough of a motivating factor for the use case of Penrose.

I agree. Can't wait to get my Penrose. I will use it differently than my Mobius, which is my favorite headset.

 

[Radio81]

Needs a dedicated chatmix dial for the PS5 version, otherwise I'd be interested.

Until then, I can't give up my Astro & Turtle Beach devices and will stay wired. Also waiting to see how good the mic is.

 

[trellus]

Mobius and Penrose share only the driver and the housing. The hardware inside is entirely different. My post here may help with your decision.


My post here explains the reason behind our decision regarding other BT codecs.

..and that post is what caused me to immediately jump and pre-order the Penrose despite already owning the Mobius -- the one thing I really, really am looking forward to is the 2.4GHz ultra-low-latency wireless via the USB dongle, which besides being great for gaming (something I don't generally even do!) means no Bluetooth limitation of using a crappy headset profile when I'm using the microphone. And saved custom EQ in the headphone? That was not something I was expecting but I'll take it!!

Mobius is even better than Penrose if using tethered via USB, but sometimes I really want to do wireless but I only use my Mobius wirelessly with my iPhone, not with my Mac, because of the Bluetooth bandwidth limitations and headset vs stereo profile.

So... I had ended up purchasing an Audio Technica G1WL in order to use with my MacBook but the sound is really, well, it's no Audeze, that's for dang sure, and it also suffers from interference if I'm close to the router (which I am at times when traveling and at my folks' home).. so it's been a less than satisfying solution and I'm so happy I'll get essentially-Mobius sound quality with ultra-low latency 2.4GHz wireless and no Bluetooth mess when connected with my MacBook!

And for $249? That's nuts, I had to pre-order. Even $299 is a good price, but $249 is just ridiculously good.

Thanks, Audeze!

 

[BCM88]

The answer for what is 'Hi-Res' would be varied depending on who you ask. I consider lossless 96kHz 24bit audio Hi-Res and Mobius supports that in 2ch USB mode without head-tracking. LDAC is not lossless so it does not fit the definition. I have seen 48kHz 24bit or 16bit audio also called Hi-Res. It is important that the full chain including DSP is capable of handling the same sample rate and often times 96kHz would push the limits on what an board DSP can do and having to keep an eye on power usage too.

I consider being lossless, avoiding sample rate conversion and keep distortion low more important than having a label that claims a higher sample-rate. The chipset used in Penrose is capable of handling 96kHz 24 bit Audio without having to resample to a lower rate, but there were couple of factors we had to consider.

1. Consoles support 48kHz audio only and you do not have much control over that.
2. Sending 96kHz 24bit lossless audio using wireless technology is a steep ask and not many field tested solutions exist and given (1) above it was not enough of a motivating factor for the use case of Penrose.

Sorry if this has been asked already KMann, but just a query on this:

I'd figured the Penrose drivers were capable of the full 'Hi-Res' Audio output, based on the Mobius, but what was the specific reason that Audio through USB (for PC users) was not also included? Wouldn't this have allowed PC gamers the additional connection option, as well as opening up the possibility for the full 'Hi Res' support?

As a console gamer, this isn't a direct concern for me, I'm all in for the fact it's wireless/lossless and will be forward-compatible with PS5, but I did wonder why that particular option wasn't included.

Is it because it would make the headset to close in function to the Mobius? Please keep in mind I have no idea what additional hardware/licensing may be required to have also offered the audio over USB as additional functionality for PC gamers. Thanks for the help throughout the topic, your input has been immensely useful!

 

[trellus]

To include USB audio support would complicate the internals and make it more expensive - I think it’s that simple. The implementation of that feature doesn’t come for free.

 

[HipHopScribe]

If someone wants a pair of headphones like this for purely wired PC use the HyperX Cloud Orbit S headphone that Audeze made for them based on the Mobius is on sale right now. Strips out any wireless support but you get the head tracking 3D audio, 7.1 support and hi-res support from the Mobius

 

[BCM88]

If someone wants a pair of headphones like this for purely wired PC use the HyperX Cloud Orbit S headphone that Audeze made for them based on the Mobius is on sale right now. Strips out any wireless support but you get the head tracking 3D audio, 7.1 support and hi-res support from the Mobius

Yeah, that would be the better pick in that case for sure. If I was a PC gamer I'd probably do that.

The reason I ask is purely from the perspective of understanding why it wasn't also included. It may be as simple as the cost to implement would have pushed the Penrose to a higher price point, and therefore make it much less feasible.

I'd just hate to think it was excluded on purpose because in reality, a Penrose that packs lossless wireless, Bluetooth connectivity and USB (for High Res) would probably invalidate Mobius for all but the head-tracking/ 3D sound due to the difference in price.

 

[C_Lindbergh]

They probably had to fit a much larger battery as well.

I remember that my mobius had dreadful battery life via Bluetooth audio.

 

[trellus]

Yeah, that would be the better pick in that case for sure. If I was a PC gamer I'd probably do that.

The reason I ask is purely from the perspective of understanding why it wasn't also included. It may be as simple as the cost to implement would have pushed the Penrose to a higher price point, and therefore make it much less feasible.

I'd just hate to think it was excluded on purpose because in reality, a Penrose that packs lossless wireless, Bluetooth connectivity and USB (for High Res) would probably invalidate Mobius for all but the head-tracking/ 3D sound due to the difference in price.

Well, it's both -- it was excluded on purpose because it would increase the cost. I personally am glad it's not in there because I think $299 (or $249 right now) is a great price point for the *exact* feature set it has. The Audio Technica ATH-G1WL (which I purchased earlier this year) does the same thing for $249 but lacks ANY Bluetooth support, so it's even more crippled -- besides lack of USB audio wired support, it also lacks any way to connect via Bluetooth.

Penrose is thus perfectly positioned with the exact feature set it has, for the right price, in my view.

 

[KMann]

Sorry if this has been asked already KMann, but just a query on this:

I'd figured the Penrose drivers were capable of the full 'Hi-Res' Audio output, based on the Mobius, but what was the specific reason that Audio through USB (for PC users) was not also included? Wouldn't this have allowed PC gamers the additional connection option, as well as opening up the possibility for the full 'Hi Res' support?

As a console gamer, this isn't a direct concern for me, I'm all in for the fact it's wireless/lossless and will be forward-compatible with PS5, but I did wonder why that particular option wasn't included.

Is it because it would make the headset to close in function to the Mobius? Please keep in mind I have no idea what additional hardware/licensing may be required to have also offered the audio over USB as additional functionality for PC gamers. Thanks for the help throughout the topic, your input has been immensely useful!

It came down to reduced cost and complexity, reduced time to production and over all a much simplified UX. The wireless radio that supports lossless low latency audio made the decision of forgoing wired USB much more easy to make.

 

[Shadowclash10]

Well, it's both -- it was excluded on purpose because it would increase the cost. I personally am glad it's not in there because I think $299 (or $249 right now) is a great price point for the *exact* feature set it has. The Audio Technica ATH-G1WL (which I purchased earlier this year) does the same thing for $249 but lacks ANY Bluetooth support, so it's even more crippled -- besides lack of USB audio wired support, it also lacks any way to connect via Bluetooth.

Penrose is thus perfectly positioned with the exact feature set it has, for the right price, in my view.

Right - even at $300, it actually undercuts most competitors. Steelseries Arctis Pro Wireless is $330, Astro A50 Gen 3 is $300 (no BT or wired, etc.), Sennheiser GSP 670 is $350. Plus, on paper, it looks better than the competition.

 

[Shadowclash10]

Hey, @KMann, do you know if the Penrose earpads will work with the Mobius, and is Audeze going to release a fancier earpad set (like the now-discontinued gelpads)? Cause that coul explain why the gelpads were discontinued.

 

[KMann]

Hey, @KMann, do you know if the Penrose earpads will work with the Mobius, and is Audeze going to release a fancier earpad set (like the now-discontinued gelpads)? Cause that coul explain why the gelpads were discontinued.

Yes the earpads are compatible. The gel pads were discontinued because there was not enough demand to justify providing them as an option any more.

 

[dekaay]

Heh, I don't think I got the time-to-market argument until I heard of the Logitech Pro X Wireless