[ehaldin]

Thanks! Are there still notable differences between the Forza Noir and Cardas?

From throwing a quick glance at Cardas, I guess that the Cross cable line would make sense as it's advertised for musicality / warmth. And it's equal price with the Forza Noir. The Cardas Clear had some enthusiastic reception in this thread, but it costs a lot more and I'm hesitating to buy another "clarity" benchmark after the LPG already shines with it. Has anyone heard the difference?

I also saw someone linking to a Cardas product at 3CAudio, who offer their own OFC / OCC LCD cables, but I take it they're unrelated otherwise?

 

[Hifi59]

Thanks! Are there still notable differences between the Forza Noir and Cardas?

From throwing a quick glance at Cardas, I guess that the Cross cable line would make sense as it's advertised for musicality / warmth. And it's equal price with the Forza Noir. The Cardas Clear had some enthusiastic reception in this thread, but it costs a lot more and I'm hesitating to buy another "clarity" benchmark after the LPG already shines with it. Has anyone heard the difference?

I also saw someone linking to a Cardas product at 3CAudio, who offer their own OFC / OCC LCD cables, but I take it they're unrelated otherwise?

The Forza may be a touch warmer and the Cardas has a bit of midrange boost but a smooth top end.
I like them both but currently running the Forza. I have both Cardas bulk 24x4 cables (eBay Venus audio or Dyson) and Cardas clear and honestly, I have a real hard time telling them apart but both are much better than typical stock cables where I CAN HEAR a difference.

 

[ehaldin]

Thank you, that's really helpful...
I was surprised how much the LPG's treble aggressiveness assuaged after a 100hrs of burn-in. The XC's 2016 revision and the amazing EQ of the LPG that allows to iron out the 8KHz-dip-10KHz-spike-12Khz-dip curve of the XC also seem to really help to keep the treble in check.

So I guess it's coming down to a gut decision between the Forza Noir and Cardas Cross. I see that Forza also offers a Noir Hybrid (copper-silver) and a Noir MK2 (copper only), which one are you running?

 

[seedubchris]

The xc's are power hungry imo. I hated them until I was able to get proper balanced power to them. Tried the ALO CDM, Not even close. Wound up with Violectric V281. I also went with Plussound Echo + "GOLD plated copper'Litz balanced cables which made a difference for sure but it was the power that made the biggest difference. Interestingly the AK 300 series amp sounds excellent with the XC's. I was amazed at how close the $600 amp came to the $2200 Violectric amp . Both are excellent solutions to the over active treble found in the xc with inadequate power. They say the can be powered by a iphone but i think most any cheaper headphones would sound better.

 

[Hifi59]

Thank you, that's really helpful...
I was surprised how much the LPG's treble aggressiveness assuaged after a 100hrs of burn-in. The XC's 2016 revision and the amazing EQ of the LPG that allows to iron out the 8KHz-dip-10KHz-spike-12Khz-dip curve of the XC also seem to really help to keep the treble in check.

So I guess it's coming down to a gut decision between the Forza Noir and Cardas Cross. I see that Forza also offers a Noir Hybrid (copper-silver) and a Noir MK2 (copper only), which one are you running?

Noir mk2. Copper done right and they look and feel great too!

 

[nrbatista]

Mine with 2016 drivers work amazingly well with a Toxic Cables Silver Widow 22 (SW22). Great soundstage and I honestly don’t feel any issues with the treble.

 

[ehaldin]

I leafed a bit through Forza reviews and wound up with the Noir Mk2 as best choice, too.

@Chris: I've always sensed the XC's hungriness, and chose to gamble with my budget to go buy the Lotoo Paw Gold for this reason, one of the most powerful DAPs with its integrated amp. In my experience, the XC sounds decent with weaker sources, but absolutely benefits from being amped better. Even the Paw Gold has some shortcomings there which I can feel - loudness not being a problem at all, while some dynamic aspects get much better enhanced than others -, but next to the budgetary question I really want to keep my chain portable, pocket-to-ears.

The Plussound Echo+ copper/gold seems great, but at this price and living behind a customs wall in Europe, I reckon I'll go with my Polish neighbours or a local Cardas retailer...

Interestingly, I was only satisfied with the XC's treble after I made a vertical mirror of its three major frequency dips with the Paw Gold's EQ: around 3,2 - 7,5 - 11,7 khz, the 3,2 lower than the others and the 7,5 being a "high frequency shelf" that extends to the right rather than a peak at 7,5khz. I cannot say if it's the homeopathic idea behind it, or simply that the treble curve should be roughly even through this EQ where it was more like a rollercoaster with the unadulterated XC, but it works for me. Of course, the result is a fairly prominent treble, but never in the intrusive / aggressive way that I also situationally heard before. It sounds more natural to me.

So the analogue / organic / musical / emotional quality - a voice being a voice - is the crux of what I'd want from a cable.
The XC actually has had an omnipresent quality of reining everything back to my ears from the first day I heard it. For me it was the major setback of the 2016 update that probably helped to improve the sound in all other aspects -- I find the control it exerts so palpable that it puts brakes on the emotions. This didn't seem to prevent treble intrusiveness all the way, but for me it's been more a static-sonic than a lively kind of intrusiveness. So, maybe the Noir Mk2 not only described as warm but also effortless, relaxed and natural will bring some amendment into this...
(Any other suggestions are still very welcome)

 

[PinoNL]

Has anyone compared the Cardas and Forza cables with Nordost Heimdall?

 

[Uncle Monty]

I went to Frank at Toxic for my cable - paired with AK380 - and I can't recommend him highly enough. He's got a thread on here where you can reach him or email him via his website for advice. He'll give you an honest opinion and won't rip you off. Wait time is about 12 weeks.

 

[seedubchris]

Cardas has a very solid reputation in the recording arts, pro audio, high end stereo worlds as well as head fi. The other makers are using outsourced cabling in most cases whereas Cardas has their own proprietary extrusion processes for their cabling. If I could afford a set of Cardas Clear cables I would go for it. I'm sure they sound amazing. All of my studio microphone cables from Cardas sure do.
Glad you are able to get your Paw Gold eq to address the treble spike . I cant get my Ak to do much of anything. I have to say that i am always looking for a solution that does not rely on EQ as there are phasing issues and the like that can come with anything but the most modest EQ settings. If I can get it right with out eq ,well then I'm on to something... Got a used set of cardas XLR interconnects to run from my Mytec Brooklyn to the Violectric V281 true balanced Headphone amp. These will replace my Mogami DIY cables I have been using. Things are really good with the xc's but I'm hoping now with a little Cardas in my chain I might get the last weak link out of my chain. It has been a long road.

 

[Howlin Fester]

Another cable to look at is WyWires. I'm using the WyWires red. As someone stated earlier, I can hear a dramatic difference between the stock cable and the WyWires cable with the LCD-XC.

There is a short WyWires thread you can search for.

 

[ehaldin]

Cardas has a very solid reputation in the recording arts, pro audio, high end stereo worlds as well as head fi. The other makers are using outsourced cabling in most cases whereas Cardas has their own proprietary extrusion processes for their cabling. If I could afford a set of Cardas Clear cables I would go for it. I'm sure they sound amazing. All of my studio microphone cables from Cardas sure do.
Glad you are able to get your Paw Gold eq to address the treble spike . I cant get my Ak to do much of anything. I have to say that i am always looking for a solution that does not rely on EQ as there are phasing issues and the like that can come with anything but the most modest EQ settings. If I can get it right with out eq ,well then I'm on to something... Got a used set of cardas XLR interconnects to run from my Mytec Brooklyn to the Violectric V281 true balanced Headphone amp. These will replace my Mogami DIY cables I have been using. Things are really good with the xc's but I'm hoping now with a little Cardas in my chain I might get the last weak link out of my chain. It has been a long road.

I'm no expert of phasing and electrics, but I can hear the downsides of EQs with an uneven "timbre line" when they exceed 2db somewhere between 100 and 15000hz. Yet, the XC's treble was in total more natural, a case where it really worked, and it was nice to have that once. I've never seen an EQ so promising at first that ultimately fell so flat of everything as with the AKs, so I can emphasize with you and with any attempt to master an EQ-less hardware chain... I hope you'll get your final reward at the end of the road, I can see how the XC is tricky but ultimately worth all the effort.

I've finally decided to return my LPG. All its wonderful specs don't really help the fact that something musical, an emotional coherence is missing - or at least very understated. It's actually the weak spot I've found with nearly all hi-res DAPs now. I can picture the developers sitting in their literal "echo chambers" of a long process of sound refinement that naturally diverts attention from the emotional / musical aspects, because they seem more immaterial. It's a real pity, considering the plethora of things the LPG gets right.

Next one to probe will be the Calyx M.

Thanks for further input on cables! The WyWires give a good read, and I can hear that veil that wants to be lifted from the LCD-XC. Ordering Toxic cables woul strain my patience a bit at this point. However, my leaning now goes toward the Forza Noir Mk2 / Hybrid / AWG20, they just seem closest to my wants. Unless the Calyx M infatuates me and still has substantial treble glare, which could make a case for the Cardas.

 

[seedubchris]

The Cardas made the difference in the end between the dac and headphone amp . Sounds more refined than mogami . This is lower end Cardas but with the "silent terminators" Cardas audio XLR . The dac helped, the headphone amp helped more but the cables too it the rest of the way .
I would say look into a dap with the AKM 4490 dacs as opposed to the Ess labs Saber . The filters in the AKM "verita" series help it to sound more analog in most implementations . The ak 320/380 has a very organic sound as long as you don't need the eq. AKM chips in those daps. It's also is a great transport. I have my eye on a "musical paradise mp-d2 " tube dac to take organic digital t the next level. Also AKM exchangeable between AKM 4490 and next gen 4497.

 

[Ho Kim]

Hello, has anyone tried the Audeze LCD XC with the Schiit Jotunheim or the Audeze Deckard? I’m looking for a good desktop amp/dac for under 500.

 

[midnightfrolic]

Hello, has anyone tried the Audeze LCD XC with the Schiit Jotunheim or the Audeze Deckard? I’m looking for a good desktop amp/dac for under 500.

I would be interested in the Dekard desktop DAC amp as well.

I decided to get a portable DAC amp since I sometimes use it on my smartphone or laptop.

I got the Centrance HiFi M8 with XRL 4pin balanced jack. 24bit 192khz. It does an amazing job with the LCD XC. Also recently picked up the Monolith 1060C headphone.. It's a much cheaper LCD XC clone. Sounds amazing when paired with this.

I mainly use the M8 as my PC desktop DAC amp.