figaro69
500+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2012
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When a product is considered to be the "ne plus ultra" of it's respective category and charges a significant premium then it would seem to be contradictory to state that it is the "best" of the dark and laid back category and that SQ needs to be accepted. There is only one "best", regardless of any single persons subjective appraisal. Now, how to describe what the "best" is is open to discussion, but it must contain many if not all of the agreed upon merits of headphones that are detailed in this extensive forum of knowledgeable users.
When a product is considered to be the "ne plus ultra" of it's respective category and charges a significant premium then it would seem to be contradictory to state that it is the "best" of the dark and laid back category and that SQ needs to be accepted. There is only one "best", regardless of any single persons subjective appraisal. Now, how to describe what the "best" is is open to discussion, but it must contain many if not all of the agreed upon merits of headphones that are detailed in this extensive forum of knowledgeable users.
Um, nobody has talked about the "best" of anything - whether dark, bright, low-cost or high-cost (which are all relative terms anyway). Well, at least I haven't as I wouldn't be that lax with words - however, I will endeavour to use the word "best" within this post as you have introduced it as a concept (even though I abhor the lazy thought process this entails). "Best" - Pfft ! In a subjective endeavour ?
I certainly haven't said any particular sonic signature needs to be accepted, by anybody.
Read what I said again - slowly this time - so that you might make better sense of what I did say and may then be better equipped to address what has actually been stated.
If anyone purchases a headphone with the expectation (garnered from whence, I wonder?) that something which is more expensive (the "ne plus ultra" of its category) is the unequivocal "best" - or even will be more likely to have a sound signature that they personally like than a cheaper headphone also chosen at random - then they are labouring under a gross misapprehension. Nobody should buy a component - especially an expensive component - without any form of research, unless they are prepared to accept the result/s of that lack of preparation as being their own responsibility (with full acknowledgement that this may not directly pertain to yourself; the LCD-2 and LCD-3 might have been presents given to you, for instance).
In general, if somebody says something is the "ne plus ultra" of anything, one might be inclined to do a little research before paying a high price for an item they know nothing about (or in this case potentially doing it twice - disliking an LCD-2 AND an LCD-3 ... two headphones which are reported to be very similar in sound signature). Your mistake is believing that if something is the "ne plus ultra" of its category, it should have an entirely neutral sound - or a sound tailored to whatever you enjoy. It doesn't work like that and you'll be wasting so much money if you continue to adopt this erroneous belief pattern.
Virtually every review of the LCD-2 and 3 that I have read acknowledges their "dark and laid back" nature, and that this is an opinion echoed every day within this very forum and has been since these respective phones were released. This leads me to wonder why anyone who views "dark and laid back" as being a "flaw" (it isn't necessarily - it is a type of sound; some will like it, some won't), would buy either of the LCD-2 or LCD-3, let alone both of them. Read before you buy, and if anyone chooses not to do so, then I believe they should at least have the integrity to admit that it might not be these "ne plus ultra" and "high cost" phones which are to blame in not being neutral/enjoyable/to their taste.
Spending large quantities of money indiscriminately will never guarantee you of a sound presentation you like. If it were that easy, well ... it's not that easy.
I should also mention (just as a pre-emptive warning), that buying an Abyss, or a Stax 009 will still entail some research despite them being even more expensive ... everything has a sonic signature, regardless of price, and if it is not a sonic signature you like it won't help that they've cost you $5,000 ... just as the old LCD's are often considered "dark" phones, and the HD800 are often considered "bright" headphones (also a "ne plus ultra" design) you may even find even the Orpheus doesn't fit your desired sonic presentation either.
PS. It is not that the "dark and laid back" sound presentation of the Audeze is an unacceptable flaw which needs to be accepted:
"When a product is considered to be the "ne plus ultra" of it's respective category and charges a significant premium then it would seem to be contradictory to state that it is the "best" of the dark and laid back category and that SQ needs to be accepted".
It is a sonic presentation (all components have 'em) which is neither flawed nor great - it just is. Price has nothing to do with it (as I previously argued, but you appear to have misinterpreted). An expensive headphone is ALLOWED to be laid back, bright, dark, fast, liquid, bass light, bass heavy or whatever subjective terms you wish to apportion. For many people the sonic presentation of the older Audeze phones (which have sold very well I believe) is NOT a flaw they are being forced to accept, it is a boon - one of the defining reasons to buy them. If someone is unaware of their own sonic preferences before making a purchase, or is unprepared to read some reviews or check some forums for opinions then what chance do they have of purchasing something which will suit them - it will just be sheer luck. However, the poor purchase decision/s shouldn't be blamed upon the headphones themselves (or their perceived "lacks") as tempting as it is to blame even incorporeal objects for our own mistakes.
Um, nobody has talked about the "best" of anything - whether dark, bright, low-cost or high-cost (which are all relative terms anyway). Well, at least I haven't as I wouldn't be that lax with words - however, I will endeavour to use the word "best" within this post as you have introduced it as a concept (even though I abhor the lazy thought process this entails). "Best" - Pfft ! In a subjective endeavour ?
I certainly haven't said any particular sonic signature needs to be accepted, by anybody.
Read what I said again - slowly this time - so that you might make better sense of what I did say and may then be better equipped to address what has actually been stated.
If anyone purchases a headphone with the expectation (garnered from whence, I wonder?) that something which is more expensive (the "ne plus ultra" of its category) is the unequivocal "best" - or even will be more likely to have a sound signature that they personally like than a cheaper headphone also chosen at random - then they are labouring under a gross misapprehension. Nobody should buy a component - especially an expensive component - without any form of research, unless they are prepared to accept the result/s of that lack of preparation as being their own responsibility (with full acknowledgement that this may not directly pertain to yourself; the LCD-2 and LCD-3 might have been presents given to you, for instance).
In general, if somebody says something is the "ne plus ultra" of anything, one might be inclined to do a little research before paying a high price for an item they know nothing about (or in this case potentially doing it twice - disliking an LCD-2 AND an LCD-3 ... two headphones which are reported to be very similar in sound signature). Your mistake is believing that if something is the "ne plus ultra" of its category, it should have an entirely neutral sound - or a sound tailored to whatever you enjoy. It doesn't work like that and you'll be wasting so much money if you continue to adopt this erroneous belief pattern.
Virtually every review of the LCD-2 and 3 that I have read acknowledges their "dark and laid back" nature, this is an opinion echoed every day within this very forum, and has been since these respective phones were released. This leads me to wonder why anyone who views "dark and laid back" as being a "flaw" (it isn't necessarily - it is a type of sound; some will like it, some won't), would buy either of the LCD-2 or LCD-3, let alone both of them. Read before you buy, and if anyone chooses not to do so, then I believe they should at least have the integrity to admit that it might not be these "ne plus ultra" and "high cost" phones which are to blame in not being neutral/enjoyable/to their taste.
Spending large quantities of money indiscriminately will never guarantee you of a sound presentation you like. If it were that easy, well ... it's not that easy.
I should also mention (just as a pre-emptive warning), that buying an Abyss, or a Stax 009 will still entail some research despite them being even more expensive ... everything has a sonic signature, regardless of price, and if it is not a sonic signature you like, it won't help that they've cost you $5,000 ... just as the old LCD's are often considered "dark" phones, and the HD800's (also a "ne plus ultra" design) are often considered "bright" headphones, you may even find even the Orpheus doesn't fit your desired sonic presentation either.
PS. It is not that the "dark and laid back" sound presentation of the Audeze is an unacceptable flaw which needs to be accepted:
"When a product is considered to be the "ne plus ultra" of it's respective category and charges a significant premium then it would seem to be contradictory to state that it is the "best" of the dark and laid back category and that SQ needs to be accepted".
It is a sonic presentation (all components have 'em) which is neither flawed nor great - it just is. Price has nothing to do with it (as I previously argued, but you appear to have misinterpreted). An expensive headphone is ALLOWED to be laid back, bright, dark, fast, liquid, bass light, bass heavy or whatever subjective terms you wish to apportion. For many people the sonic presentation of the older Audeze phones (which have sold very well I believe) is NOT a flaw they are being forced to accept, it is a boon - one of the defining reasons to buy them. If someone is unaware of their own sonic preferences before making a purchase, or is unprepared to read some reviews or check some forums for opinions then what chance do they have of purchasing something which will suit them ? It will just be sheer luck. However, the poor purchase decision/s shouldn't be blamed upon the headphones themselves (or their perceived "lacks") as tempting as it is to blame even incorporeal objects for our own mistakes.
Can somebody re-cap on what works best with the LCD-X
From my reading, I am under the assumption of the following;
Burson Conductor
Woo WA7
Mjolnir
SPL Phonitor
I been listening all day yesterday and today with the LCD X on the WA5 and it by far the very best Audeze headphone I have heard to date. This headphone has a bigger sound stage and better defined bass than the other headphones and is not warm or syrupy. There is more air than other model from the Audeze line and this is a true reference caliper headphone.
I find the LCD-X is in the Ultrasone ED-10 category a huge failure, the X has one of the poorest midrange like a void where all details are lost
when u say details - is it mostly in the higher frequency rather than mid range ?
u lost me here .....
thinker wrote "(...) midrange (...) where all details are lost." that's quite clear, isn't it?
Frankly along burn-in, let's say between 50 and 70 hrs, my LCX-X became rather "un-defined" in the midrange as well, and I already started to get nervous. Then suddenly the midrange kind of re-adjusted itself practically from one day to another, and since that they sound wonderfully transparent. I am now at approx. 200 hrs and I hope it remains like that. I only experienced similar effect in the 1980s with Jecklin Float electrostatic phones which reacted very sensitive on changes of temperature and/or humidity. I remember some others were also reporting about similar effects with different electrostatic speakers and phones. In this case the effect would be independent of burn-in and could reappear at any time. Still, the LCD is not an elecrostatic phone, so I guess ( hope) it should be rather free of such reactions to changing external conditions.
Anyway, I do not know what caused it, but I will observe....
LCD-X is not difficult to drive. At 96 dB/SPL any decent portable amp can drive it.
I wouldn't agree at all... Yes efficiency is high, but that doesn't mean that it's easy to drive, at least if you consider sound-quality more relevant than sound-pressure.
Quite interesting how the LCD-X discussion changed here on headfi along the months, starting with "easy to drive" to more recent discussions where it becomes clear that the LCD-X actually is quite picky concerning the amp... I just hit a sound-jackpot with one of my tube amps' speaker output (3W). Just some minor issues to solve, some humming, need a little resistor network there...
Can somebody re-cap on what works best with the LCD-X
From my reading, I am under the assumption of the following;
Burson Conductor
Woo WA7
Mjolnir
SPL Phonitor
Can somebody re-cap on what works best with the LCD-X
From my reading, I am under the assumption of the following;
SPL Phonitor
Who said the LCD-X works well with the SPL Phonitor? Its listed maximum power output @ 32 Ohms (+10 Ohms from the LCD-X's 22 Ohm impedance) is 360 mW. On their Web site, Audeze recommends an amp that can output 1-4W. It's clear from those figures that the SPL Phonitor is completely incapable of properly driving the LCD-X.