[Gabriel Sontag]

Using the cipher v2 cables, how much of an improvement is the i4 from the 20's directly?

 

[Slim1970]

Using the cipher v2 cables, how much of an improvement is the i4 from the 20's directly?

I had the iSine 20's before I upgraded to the i4's. The i4's are an improvement in every way. The i4's don't really need the Cipher cable to sound good unlike the iSine 20's. Using the Cipher cable with the i4's on the other hand, puts them that much further ahead of the iSine 20's sonically.

 

[Gabriel Sontag]

That's not what I meant, no one argues that the i4 isn't superior, what I meant to ask was the percentage of the i4's performance the isine 20 can demonstrate with the cipher cable, usually the higher end of headphones has hugely diminishing returns, but both of these are unique for there price, so I want to know, do the i4's completely obliterate any appeal the isine's have (for example being 4x as good with no sign of diminishing returns) or are they somewhat comparable, with the i4's being a still hugely impressive definite third better?

 

[Slim1970]

That's not what I meant, no one argues that the i4 isn't superior, what I meant to ask was the percentage of the i4's performance the isine 20 can demonstrate with the cipher cable, usually the higher end of headphones has hugely diminishing returns, but both of these are unique for there price, so I want to know, do the i4's completely obliterate any appeal the isine's have (for example being 4x as good with no sign of diminishing returns) or are they somewhat comparable, with the i4's being a still hugely impressive definite third better?

Oh okay. No the i4's don't completely make the iSine 20's insignificant by any means. The iSIne 20's with Cipher get you about 70% percent of the i4's sound. If the i4's didn't exist I could easily live with the sound of the iSine 20's.

 

[Gabriel Sontag]

Oh okay. No the i4's don't completely make the iSine 20's insignificant by any means. The iSIne 20's with Cipher get you about 70% percent of the i4's sound. If the i4's didn't exist I could easily live with the sound of the iSine 20's.

Thank you

 

[JLoud]

I have to second that statement. I love my i4's but if value is what your looking for, then the 20's or even the 10's have it in spades.

 

[sorrick]

That's not what I meant, no one argues that the i4 isn't superior, what I meant to ask was the percentage of the i4's performance the isine 20 can demonstrate with the cipher cable, usually the higher end of headphones has hugely diminishing returns, but both of these are unique for there price, so I want to know, do the i4's completely obliterate any appeal the isine's have (for example being 4x as good with no sign of diminishing returns) or are they somewhat comparable, with the i4's being a still hugely impressive definite third better?

Honestly, several people have asked in this thread what percentage better the i4 is than the iSine 20 and every time it’s got a different answer because it is a totally meaningless question. It is absolutely impossible to answer in any meaningful way because 30% better to me could easily be be 60% better or 3% better to you. Suffice to say that the i4 is an immediately noticeable and notable improvement in pretty much every regard and which scales up the better gear you put it with. With a top notch portable source like a hugo2, it will compete with just about any full size headphone setup.

Looks like you live in New York. Best thing for you to do would be to find a local Audeze dealer and try the i4s out, or order a pair and return them within 30 days to Audeze if you are not happy for a full refund. Only your ears will be able to tell you whether the improvement is worth the price of upgrade.

 

[edwardsean]

Honestly, several people have asked in this thread what percentage better the i4 is than the iSine 20 and every time it’s got a different answer because it is a totally meaningless question. It is absolutely impossible to answer in any meaningful way because 30% better to me could easily be be 60% better or 3% better to you. Suffice to say that the i4 is an immediately noticeable and notable improvement in pretty much every regard and which scales up the better gear you put it with. With a top notch portable source like a hugo2, it will compete with just about any full size headphone setup.

Looks like you live in New York. Best thing for you to do would be to find a local Audeze dealer and try the i4s out, or order a pair and return them within 30 days to Audeze if you are not happy for a full refund. Only your ears will be able to tell you whether the improvement is worth the price of upgrade.

This is absolutely true. The question is subjective and so there is no definitive answer without personally trying it out. At the same time, I'm sure the poster is aware and isn't looking for an answer but for some guiding insight.

Having owned both, the perspective I would offer is one of category. Audeze did a great job of designing the iSine 10/20 for the mass consumer. They are a great value proposition and you get much more SQ than you would expect for the price. The i4, on the other hand, is a true audiophile product, and as such, costs much more to gain sound raised to those exacting standards.

If you are a music lover and want great sound the iSines are throughly enjoyable. If you're someone that doesn't just listen to music but listens to gear, picking apart soundstage, spectral/dynamic range, transient response, etc., that is to say, if you are an audiophile, you'll also enjoy the iSines but they (most likely) won't satisfy you. This isn't a matter of personal taste, but because they aren't really at that highest sonic level. You also might not like the i4s, but that will be a matter of taste, because the expense was spent to reach the top tier of audio reproduction. The iSines make for a wonderful portable compromise, but you take comfort that you have "real gear" at home. The genius of the i4s are you can take an uncompromising system with you anywhere.

Every audiophile is a music lover (at least they should be), but not every music lover has to be an audiophile (at least they should try to avoid it).

 

[Phronesis]

It’s not uncommon for people to subjectively assign quantitative ratings to things (think Olympics), and I think it’s fine for people say A sounds x% better than B, as long as that’s understood to be a subjective assessment of a difference. If the average for a bunch of people was say 5%, we would know that most people think A sounds only a little better than B.

 

[Gabriel Sontag]

Are the isine 20's at the level of providing an illusion of reality at their best, or is it missing the requisite accuracy to produce a convincing portrail of space, how would you compare the isine 20's with cipher, isine 10 with cipher, and lcd i4 with cipher, is the isine 20's soundstage far superior to the 10's, and is the lcd i4's far superior to the 20's?
Imho with mid-fi - hifi cans, headscape is more important than objective detail, how well do these compare with the competition? Is it possible to get a better headscape with over ears at 400, 600, and/or 2500?

 

[AlwaysForward]

Are the isine 20's at the level of providing an illusion of reality at their best, or is it missing the requisite accuracy to produce a convincing portrail of space, how would you compare the isine 20's with cipher, isine 10 with cipher, and lcd i4 with cipher, is the isine 20's soundstage far superior to the 10's, and is the lcd i4's far superior to the 20's?
Imho with mid-fi - hifi cans, headscape is more important than objective detail, how well do these compare with the competition? Is it possible to get a better headscape with over ears at 400, 600, and/or 2500?

IMHO, you probably need to find an Audeze dealer in New York and try out what they have. The iSine, to me, does provide reality type sound. It really hit home after I had been living with them for about a year and felt the itch to go try stuff at the local shop. They really fare very well against everything but the Utopia IMHO. I haven’t tried the i4 but supposedly it’s up there with the Utopia.

 

[Phronesis]

After using the cipher cable for a while, I decided to try going back to running the i4 straight out of a DAC/amp (Mojo and Hugo 2). I find it to sound quite good, and EQ isn't really needed, though a bit more bass would help with some tracks (I have SpinFit CP155 small tips, which help give me a good seal). As Audeze has pointed out, I don't think it's really possible to use the EQ app to properly 'undo' the EQ built into the cipher cable, since the 10-band EQ isn't precise enough to accomplish that.

So bottom line for me is that the i4 provides about an equally enjoyable experience with or without the cipher cable. With the cipher, ability to EQ provides some flexibility and doesn't substantially impact sound quality. Without the cipher, if tips are used which provide a good fit and seal, EQ isn't really needed, and I perceive a touch more 'purity' to the sound (take with a grain of salt, my perception could be fooling me).

 

[Gabriel Sontag]

The question that I most want answered about the lcd i4 vs isine 20 is that when paired with an ios device with only cipher cables how large is the difference between the i4 and isine's?
I plan to walk around my not so quiet house with them and I found the mojo too bulky for that usage, I plan to use either the dragonfly red or the cipher cables nothing else.

 

[Gabriel Sontag]

The question that I most want answered about the lcd i4 vs isine 20 is that when paired with an ios device with only cipher cables how large is the difference between the i4 and isine's?
I plan to walk around my not so quiet house with them and I found the mojo too bulky for that usage, I plan to use either the dragonfly red or the cipher cables nothing else.

ps. my home is never absolutely silent, even while alone.

 

[baiyy1986]

ps. my home is never absolutely silent, even while alone.

I think its fine, I sometimes use it at the gym, It is a different experience to other IEM. I know IEM tends to isolate the noise, but if the noise is not so loud, you still can enjoy your music without losing too much detail.
I really like using it in my office, it is a not-absolutely-silent environment, but It feels like you are "in your zone", the sound is big, but you still know what other people are doing, but you have your own concert.
Also, I use Spinfit 155, it also helps in some isolation.
Hope it can help.