[Mediahound]

Does this mean that normal copper is supposed to be better?
Because I have a copper cable with a clear jacket from Jerry Harvey that started turning green in a just a few months.

Good quality OFC copper with quality shielding would not do that.

 

[Mediahound]

That article, above, about silver-plated copper cables, is not new. I read that article months ago last year. I agree, everything is debatable. But Ray also has a stake in the claims he makes, because he is a cable manufacturer. So when money is involved, one should always tread with caution.

I'm certain he would sell silver-plated copper if he wanted to. It's not like it's not readily available in the industry and is also the cheapest option versus a high purity copper or silver.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

I'm certain he would sell silver-plated copper if he wanted to. It's not like it's not readily available in the industry and is also the cheapest option versus a high purity copper or silver.

I agree he would sell it. Since he is in the 3rd party cable business, I expect he would sell any cable that he could make money off of. But if Sennheiser and Audeze (and others) are already selling high-quality, silver-plated copper, stock cables, then that means there is a very limited need for anyone to upgrade their cable. And that doesn’t help his business...

 

[sahmen]

The only problem with the stock cable is that it's silver-plated copper. Why is that bad? See:

Well, if what Ray Kimber is saying is true, then I would be tempted to conclude that Audeze has dropped the ball on this one. Yet, I can't help noticing that the interview was published in August 2015, and that between then and now, the technology could have evolved to the point where one cannot rule out the possibility that @Audeze (@KMann ) may have found some remedy for the oxidation problems Ray Kimber is referring to... rather than make a premium cable this expensive based on a formula that is known in the industry to be so flawed (again if one is to take what Ray Kimber is saying at face value). I do hope that the folks at @Audeze have this under control..., moreso, since they seem so self-consciously attentive to their cable technology in R & D... Witness the evolution of the Cipher cable, now in its third iteration.

By the way, did you read the comments under the video, I mean those of people trashing the video for being "pathetically" misinformed? Unfortunately, Ray Kimber himself is the butt of much of the derisive criticism on that page, I'm afraid, which leaves me at a loss as to what to think about his words. Such is the confusion one has to deal with in this hobby. Personally, I am no expert, but I am inclined to simply trust Audeze on this one.

At any rate, I sent my still unused LCD-4's premium SE cable back to Audeze in exchange for the 4-pin XLR version, which arrived at the post office today. I just had to e-mail them my request for the trade. Great customer service as usual.

 

[SteveM324]

I did the same, I exchanged my premium SE cable for the 4 pin XLR cable a few days ago. I’ve been listening and burning it in for about 48 hours. It’s changed quite a bit in the 48 hours. It’s gone from a warm laid back sound to being a bit aggressive and unnatural sounding. Since it’s changed quite dramatically in the first 48 hrs it probably isn’t fully burned in. That said, I doubt that the stock cable with further burn in will replace my Norne Silvergarde S3 cable that seems to be a synergistic match between my P700u and 4Z. The 4Z with the S3 is detailed but natural sounding with a wide and deep 3D soundstage.

 

[sahmen]

I did the same, I exchanged my premium SE cable for the 4 pin XLR cable a few days ago. I’ve been listening and burning it in for about 48 hours. It’s changed quite a bit in the 48 hours. It’s gone from a warm laid back sound to being a bit aggressive and unnatural sounding. Since it’s changed quite dramatically in the first 48 hrs it probably isn’t fully burned in. That said, I doubt that the stock cable with further burn in will replace my Norne Silvergarde S3 cable that seems to be a synergistic match between my P700u and 4Z. The 4Z with the S3 is detailed but natural sounding with a wide and deep 3D soundstage.

The S3 is really superb with the 4 too. It's the main reason why I could leave the original stock SE cable untouched, until I sent it in for the swap. Now that the 4-pin XLR version of the stock premium cable is here, I still do not know when I am going to try it out, because the S3 is still "king of the castle" when it comes to pairings with the LCD-4. I got the the premium SE stock cable replaced, primarily because I thought that for a cable valued at $600, it was too expensive to lie around unused, simply because of its termination. Yet this is also where I find your current experimentation with this same stock cable particularly intriguing and useful. From my understanding of the sonic transformation you have observed in the first 48 hours of its use, I can only conclude that there is more evolution to come down the road. I'll be curious to know where this burn-in process eventually leads. Please keep us posted. You can count me as one particularly fascinated observer and audience.

 

[SteveM324]

The S3 is really superb with the 4 too. It's the main reason why I could leave the original stock SE cable untouched, until I sent it in for the swap. Now that the 4-pin XLR version of the stock premium cable is here, I still do not know when I am going to try it out, because the S3 is still "king of the castle" when it comes to pairings with the LCD-4. I got the the premium SE stock cable replaced, primarily because I thought that for a cable valued at $600, it was too expensive to lie around unused, simply because of its termination. Yet this is also where I find your current experimentation with this same stock cable particularly intriguing and useful. From my understanding of the sonic transformation you have observed in the first 48 hours of its use, I can only conclude that there is more evolution to come down the road. I'll be curious to know where this burn-in process eventually leads. Please keep us posted. You can count me as one particularly fascinated observer and audience.

I'll post an update in 1-2 weeks.

 

[Zeleni Zec]

Everything anyone says is debatable if one ignores evidence. Ray Kimber likely knows a lot more about cable conductors than Sennheiser and other headphone manufacturers who just buys bulk cabling from China, he lives and breathes only cables every day.

Believe the information (or not), based on the evidence. NASA even did a study on the topic where they named these type of cables 'red plague':

https://nepp.nasa.gov/DocUploads/97164203-A4FB-479A-A075C918D51DD81E/ESA Red Plague.pdf

NASA did study in 1985 and since then some advances in cable production have been made. In 1986 it was introduced OCC (Ohno Continuous Casting) process of producing ingots for casting wires having single crystal structure. Wires drawn from such ingots have average length of copper crystals around 125 meter. In other words, cable made with such wires have one or none crystal barriers within normal lengths up to several meters. Apart from having long crystals, OCC coper usually has purity greater than 6N (99.99998%).

Audeze LCD-4 premium cable is made out of silver plated OCC copper. It is a good quality cable worthy pairing with LCD-4. This is not the best that money can buy as we are not cable manufacturer.

 

[BlueThunder]

NASA did study in 1985 and since then some advances in cable production have been made. In 1986 it was introduced OCC (Ohno Continuous Casting) process of producing ingots for casting wires having single crystal structure. Wires drawn from such ingots have average length of copper crystals around 125 meter. In other words, cable made with such wires have one or none crystal barriers within normal lengths up to several meters. Apart from having long crystals, OCC coper usually has purity greater than 6N (99.99998%).

Audeze LCD-4 premium cable is made out of silver plated OCC copper. It is a good quality cable worthy pairing with LCD-4. This is not the best that money can buy as we are not cable manufacturer.

It would be interesting to hear the ‘upgrade’ choices of Audeze.

 

[Zeleni Zec]

It would be interesting to hear the ‘upgrade’ choices of Audeze.

Out of our own curiosity we experimented with various wires, isolation and braiding. The goal was not only to find appropriate cable for our products but to satisfy our own "upgradeitis" (after all, we are only human too). My personal favorite is OCC Silver with added Gold.

 

[sahmen]

Out of our own curiosity we experimented with various wires, isolation and braiding. The goal was not only to find appropriate cable for our products but to satisfy our own "upgradeitis" (after all, we are only human too). My personal favorite is OCC Silver with added Gold.

Could you let us know whether the sound of the present stock premium cable is known to evolve with break-in, after several hours of use? That's assuming you have experimented with it in order to find out.

 

[Zeleni Zec]

Could you let us know whether the sound of the present stock premium cable is known to evolve with break-in, after several hours of use? That's assuming you have experimented with it in order to find out.

No, we didn't try to determine that. We do not to rely on memory which can sometimes play tricks with you. Direct comparison and repeatability is the key to be sure that we are not hearing what we would like to hear instead of real difference.

 

[nick97]

How will these bad boys sound out of a Hugo 2? If you've heard the empyrean as well a comparison would be awesome which one would be more forgiving to crappy recordings?

 

[commtrd]

How will these bad boys sound out of a Hugo 2? If you've heard the empyrean as well a comparison would be awesome which one would be more forgiving to crappy recordings?

4z are awesome with H2. But like any great headphone, they will only reproduce the good or the bad they are fed with. Which is as it should be.

 

[CreditingKarma]

How will these bad boys sound out of a Hugo 2? If you've heard the empyrean as well a comparison would be awesome which one would be more forgiving to crappy recordings?

I had these with a hugo 2 and mscaler. They sounded really good and are not power hungry. The mids are thicker than the empyrean and I feel like there is a bit more air with the 4z. I can tell you that when I sold them to finance a speaker upgrade I regretted it almost immediately.

I was really wanting to buy them again but I picked up the ab1266 phi tc. To me the abyss stands above both the LCD4Z and empyrean in almost all regards. The empyrean is lighter and more comfortable. Both also have thicker mids than the abyss. The abyss is faster than both the LCD4Z and empyrean and has a much larger sound stage .

I would recommend auditioning g both the empyrean and LCD4Z before making a purchase. They are both great cans. If you can stretch maybe give the abyss a listen too they do need more power to shine though. It takes some trial to get the fit right too.