[x RELIC x]

If you are looking to add more power, I agree with MacedonianHero above. Go for significantly more power than Hugo 2 from a clean and fast amp.

@KMann, can you explain how more power ‘available’ is actually used at the transducer without increasing SPL. The headphones just react to what they are given and if not at max volume then a very high max power spec from the amp is largely irrelevant for 99.99999999999% of people’s listening levels.

Headphones like the 4z won’t ever actually use 1-4W at the transducer (unless the listener is deaf) so why does Audeze recommend such power output? Using an online headphone power calculator for the LCD-4z (98dB SPL/mW at drum reference level, 15 Ohm impedance) the headphone needs 158.11mW to reach 120dB peaks. I know that if I'm hearing 120dB peaks then I would need to turn the volume down as that would just be too uncomfortable (painful) to listen to, and in turn I'd be supplying the headphones with less power. Another reference point for a more moderate volume level, as calculated, the 4z would need just 1.5mW for 100dB peaks, which is a much more reasonable volume, so why the insane headroom recommendations? Serious question.

Clean and fast amp I can get 100% on board with, which has a lot more to do with the overal amp design and is far more important, IMO, than just a power output spec once there is enough juice with some headroom.

Edit: Also, could you please clarify the difference between the two sensitivity specs Audeze lists for the LCD-4z. I based the above calculation on the 98dB SPL/mW sensitivity spec, but when using the 107dB SPL/V Voltage sensitivity spec the calculations come to 13.5mW for 100dB peaks (moderate listening) and 1332.06mW for 120dB peaks (painful listening).

 

[commtrd]

I've got that same setup here and have gone back and forth and both (Hugo 2 and GLite Mk2) output roughly the same amount of power and to my ears (especially with high res recordings), I prefer the H2 alone. Gilmore amps are a little different as they are very unflavoured in terms of their design criteria. Now if I were to use the LCD-4, I would need to hook up my 5.5W+ GS-X Mk2 for more "ideal" power settings, but the Hugo 2 is plenty enough amplification for the LCD-4z.

That said, if it sounds good to your ears...then it is. <-- my #1 rule of audio.

LCD-4Z was designed with transportability in mind, we used Hugo 2 when we developed and tested both LCD-4Z and LCD-i4. LCD-4Z pairs well with Hugo 2

LCD-4Z scales well with the better amplification stage of DAVE and also with better DAC when you add the M-Scalar.

If you are looking to add more power, I agree with MacedonianHero above. Go for significantly more power than Hugo 2 from a clean and fast amp.

SO at the risk of looking dense here, can someone put some 'splain on me? IF Hugo 2 does line out at around 3 VRMS, and GLMk2 amplifies around 1.5 watts, then hypothetically speaking, what would be the actual wattage full scale capability and actual VRMS at the load (headphones) which of course would take into account the load input impedance? In other words, WITH THE LOAD(s) OF THE i4 OR THE 4z, driven by the Hugo 2, am I actually realizing any meaningful demonstrable added SQ by virtue of external amplification?
To my ears the SQ does not change at all, just there seems to be more punch to the bass and mids etc. And I originally got the external amp when I was on the fence about getting a ZMF Auteur which is a dynamic @ 300 ohms load. Well anyway, I have the amp, it does not seem to [my ears] impart any negative impact onto the SQ, and i4 / 4z sit up and play really nicely with the amp in place. So did I really need the external amp? It does not appear that I really did. But the amp only cost 500 clams, so I did not break the bank getting it.

 

[KMann]

Clean and fast amp I can get 100% on board with, which has a lot more to do with the overal amp design and is far more important, IMO, than just a power output spec once there is enough juice with some headroom.

Agreed. I was stating my opinion rather than a fact and also making an assumption that was not explicitly stated. Assuming an amp was already fast and clean and when trying to decide between two amps that differed only in their power output, larger speced amps tend to have more robust power supply, lesser impedance, and more dynamics, possibly lesser distortion at the same power output level. Again just because an amp is specd for higher output power does not automatically make it a better amp and one has to listen and decide. But if trying to make a choice say between Gilmore lite and GS-X Mk2 I would go for the later or stay with Hugo2.

Personally I value transparency more and would avoid adding an amp unless I felt I was stressing the Hugo 2, but not everyone values or thinks of transparency the same way I do and may prefer the improved dynamics or specific characteristics of an amp (like adding a tube amp).

 

[teknorob23]

Congrats on the LCD-4z...brilliant pair of headphones!

The Lehman Linear outputs 400mW and the Hugo 2 can output more power as a standalone. As well, you are introducing more distortion into your setup with an additional amp. A more purist approach would be just using the Hugo2 alone. I can confirm this is a brilliant pairing and wouldn't recommend using another amp with it and the LCD-4z as they are quite efficient.

Having spent the last 2 hours listening direct, of course your absolutely right. I think i was mistaking added warmth for bass body but yes H2 direct has more clarity and resolution. I can definitely hear better layering and more open mid-range. These are my first foray into full size cans having spent the last 12 months listening to all sorts or iems, after a life in 2 channel. With the IEMs, it never crossed my mind to introduce a headphone amp, but i was offered a great deal in the Lehman before i got the 4z and jumped straight in thinking that would be the way to go.

Thanks for turning the lights on

 

[Loose-Leaf]

Agreed. I was stating my opinion rather than a fact and also making an assumption that was not explicitly stated. Assuming an amp was already fast and clean and when trying to decide between two amps that differed only in their power output, larger speced amps tend to have more robust power supply, lesser impedance, and more dynamics, possibly lesser distortion at the same power output level. Again just because an amp is specd for higher output power does not automatically make it a better amp and one has to listen and decide. But if trying to make a choice say between Gilmore lite and GS-X Mk2 I would go for the later or stay with Hugo2.

Personally I value transparency more and would avoid adding an amp unless I felt I was stressing the Hugo 2, but not everyone values or thinks of transparency the same way I do and may prefer the improved dynamics or specific characteristics of an amp (like adding a tube amp).

KMann beautiful work on the 4Z sonics & looks !

Having recently borrowed the GS-X Mk2 and popping the hood it is clearly obvious it’s built by a highly competent designer and it’s a great match with Audeze however for now I currently use a Mjölnir Audio bipolar mk2 which I purchased used though I found much more pleasing to the ear and able then the more powerful Amps&Sound Mogwui SE including a Ag Audio HE-9 which I borrowed from a friend .
Time spent with all four amplifiers the HE-9 and Mog SE didn’t last long in the comparison driving the Audeze 4 & 4Z ,The HE-9 was ultimately lifeless sounding almost sterile I would say and the full option Mog SE just wasn’t believable enough and lacked musicality, I tried hard to like them .
The Mjölnir and GS-X are fabulous driving the 4s & 4Z , coupled with a decent source and dac I now feel satisfied and content,... finally .

 

[commtrd]

@LooseLeaf what dac pairing with the amp?

 

[Loose-Leaf]

@LooseLeaf what dac pairing with the amp?

The dac is not known too well on North American shores , Rockna however it’s a fully balanced honey though expensive at 9000.00 bucks .

 

[KMann]

Edit: Also, could you please clarify the difference between the two sensitivity specs Audeze lists for the LCD-4z. I based the above calculation on the 98dB SPL/mW sensitivity spec, but when using the 107dB SPL/V Voltage sensitivity spec the calculations come to 13.5mW for 100dB peaks (moderate listening) and 1332.06mW for 120dB peaks (painful listening).

Sometimes between engineering, marketing and publishing things get lost a bit in translation. There was an error in the spec and thanks for pointing it out.

98dB SPL/mW is correct but the voltage efficiency was not. For 15 Ohm impedance, at 1V, LCD-4z would consume 66.7mW. So in terms of dB SPL that will be 98 + 10*log10(66.7) = 116.24 dB SPL/V not 107dB SPL/V. I will get this corrected.

 

[x RELIC x]

Well anyway, I have the amp, it does not seem to [my ears] impart any negative impact onto the SQ, and i4 / 4z sit up and play really nicely with the amp in place. So did I really need the external amp? It does not appear that I really did. But the amp only cost 500 clams, so I did not break the bank getting it.

Did you need it? Well, enjoyment is what we are all here for so if you enjoy it then I’d say it was worth it. As @KMann pointed out it depends on what you’re after.

 

[x RELIC x]

Agreed. I was stating my opinion rather than a fact and also making an assumption that was not explicitly stated. Assuming an amp was already fast and clean and when trying to decide between two amps that differed only in their power output, larger speced amps tend to have more robust power supply, lesser impedance, and more dynamics, possibly lesser distortion at the same power output level. Again just because an amp is specd for higher output power does not automatically make it a better amp and one has to listen and decide. But if trying to make a choice say between Gilmore lite and GS-X Mk2 I would go for the later or stay with Hugo2.

Personally I value transparency more and would avoid adding an amp unless I felt I was stressing the Hugo 2, but not everyone values or thinks of transparency the same way I do and may prefer the improved dynamics or specific characteristics of an amp (like adding a tube amp).

Agreed! Thank you for clarifying your perspective.

 

[guyben]

Just listened to this on MQA 48khz/24bit via Tidal.
AMAZING. I've listened to this countless times before I got the LCD4Z and it's a great recording but with the LCD4Z it is truly remarkable.
Ahhh..so glad I got those.

Guy

 

[Mediahound]

i am bit surprised that with this huge price for lcd4z you still feel need to eq it

can you shed some light why u feel u need to eq lcd4z

It's definitely not needed per se, I just like to tune things a bit sometimes such as bass boost when listening to electronica, etc.

 

[Dinrog]

i am bit surprised that with this huge price for lcd4z you still feel need to eq it

can you shed some light why u feel u need to eq lcd4z

I played with EQ abit now with the 4z and apart from some additional energy in the lowend paired with electronic music, i preferred the stocksound by far to any EQ. Most other Cans i had improved with a bit of correction but not this one (imo)

 

[500178]

Does the LCD-4z also have the issue where you need to tighten the screws on the headband?

 

[Mediahound]

Does the LCD-4z also have the issue where you need to tighten the screws on the headband?

Maybe the bottom screws, but the adjustor screws are actually non-adjustable:

"Note: The tensioned set screws in the sides of the headband's adjustment blocks are pre-set and glued in our factory, and are not adjustable. Do not attempt to adjust these screws, as damage may result that is not covered by warranty."

https://www.audeze.com/products/lcd-collection/lcd-4z